This Old Marketing - News Podcast Weekly with Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose

Joe and Robert kick off the show with a look at the coming explosion of video creators and what happens when AI makes video creation essentially unlimited. Then they dig into OpenAI's new Astra model, the debate over whether we've reached AGI, and the uncomfortable timing of Anthropic insiders warning that increasingly powerful AI could pose an existential risk. Finally, it's prediction time. Joe and Robert make their 2026 NFL picks and pit their football knowledge against OpenAI and Claude. Who wins the Super Bowl? Who completely embarrasses themselves? We'll find out. Articles from the show: Billion New Video Creators Coming Soon OpenAI GPT-6 Astra Review: Shockingly Good Anthropic Insiders Warn AI Could Kill All Humans Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe and Robert look at Big Tech power, unexpected brand comebacks and the growing tension between AI efficiency and human trust. Meta agreed to an enormous teen-safety settlement, including new limits around young users. But the most interesting part may be that billions of dollars are tied to competitors adopting similar protections. Is Meta turning a regulatory loss into a competitive advantage? Google was found to have illegally monopolized key parts of the digital ad market, yet a federal judge declined to force the company to sell its ad exchange business. If the monopoly remains intact, what exactly did the antitrust case accomplish? MapQuest suddenly became the No. 1 app in the U.S. after refusing to follow Google and Apple in renaming Lake Ontario. Is the lesson that brands should take more stands, or simply know the few things worth taking a stand on? Joe's rant looks at New York City public schools placing a one-year moratorium on generative AI through eighth grade. The concern is understandable, but banning AI is easier than doing the harder work of creating guardrails and teaching students how to use it responsibly. Joe's marketing loser is the growing use of AI-generated food images in restaurant menus and promotions, sometimes depicting food that looks nothing like the real product. AI should help market the product, not invent it. Robert's marketing loser takes aim at the marketing industry's need to turn everything, including Dolly Parton's legacy, into a list of brand lessons. And Robert's commentary looks at Jason Isbell and other musicians suing AI music company Suno over technology that allegedly imitates their voices and musical identities, potentially opening another major front in the battle between generative AI and human creators. Articles from the show: Meta teen-safety settlement · Google ad-tech ruling · MapQuest comeback · NYC schools AI ban · AI food slop · Dolly Parton brand lessons · Jason Isbell vs. Suno, The New York Times Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

AI is already changing what students believe they should study , but maybe we're asking the wrong question. Joe and Robert discuss whether college should be less about choosing the perfect major and more about giving young people four years to think critically, read widely, write, speak, create, debate and become better prepared for whatever comes next. The guys also look at the rush of major brands into Hollywood and entertainment . As traditional media struggles, companies including Gap, Toyota and Kraft Heinz are moving beyond sponsorships and building entertainment properties of their own. Winner and Loser Joe's winner is Raising Cane's , a company that turned extreme focus around one product into a remarkable brand, community and culture. Robert's loser is Harvard Business School , which is using AI avatars of actual faculty members in its $699 HBS Foundry startup bootcamp. The avatars help founders rehearse pitches and board meetings while the program still includes live human sessions, raising a bigger question about what we're actually paying educators for in the age of AI. Rants and Raves Robert raves about Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre's new college curriculum . Joe's commentary is on Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson. What can we learn from his latest press disaster? Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

As Meta faces a massive lawsuit over allegedly addictive design, the guys discuss what implications there are for the future of Meta and for marketers and consumers. They also look at ABC's lawsuit against the FCC and the bigger lesson for every marketer and creator: know who your landlord is. If someone else controls your access to the audience, they can always change the rules. Joe's winner: Puck , and its model of building human-led content franchises instead of traditional brand-centered content. Robert's winner/loser: Reddit and marketers . Joe raves about Niu Lai , the wildly imperfect Chinese animated movie finding an audience partly because it is unmistakably human. Robert raves about the TV series Blue Lights . Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Anthropic plans to watermark Claude-generated text , but what does that really prove? Joe and Robert discuss whether an AI mark could become a scarlet letter, even when AI only edited or assisted with the work. Then, new creator research shows most creators still make very little money. The guys ask whether creators are chasing brand deals when they should be building real businesses, with Lofi Girl as a perfect example of turning content and audience into something much bigger. Joe's Winner: Jungle Jim's International Market , for turning grocery shopping into an experience people actually talk about. Robert's Loser: Brands potentially bankrolling AI misinformation through their advertising dollars. Robert's Rant: The problems with outcome-based pricing for brands and agencies. Joe's Rave: Perfect content may come down to two questions: Does creating it take care of you, and does it take care of someone else? Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

LinkedIn says it is declaring war on AI slop , even though the platform helped create the conditions that made endless generic content possible. Joe and Robert discuss LinkedIn's new cleanup efforts and whether platforms can distinguish low-quality AI content from valuable AI-assisted work. Next, the boys cover the breaking story involving rogue AI agents from Anthropic and Meta. Is this marketing theatre or real-world training problems with AI? Disney and TikTok are partnering to give creators access to Disney content and bring fan-made videos into the Disney+ experience. Is Disney empowering creators and strengthening fandom a good move, or too late? In Marketing Winners and Losers, Robert's winner is Spotify for adding Merlin to its AI music-remix initiative. Joe's winner is Aéropostale's The Intern Diaries , featuring 16-year-old creator Déjà Clark as an active participant in both the content and product-development process. In Rants and Raves, Robert raves about a New York Times article on AI transformation from Lululemon's former chief information officer . Joe rants about the Los Angeles Times comparing AI skills with an MBA and explains why knowing how to operate today's tools is not the same as learning strategy, judgment and critical thinking. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, the boys explore the rapidly changing relationship between companies, creators and employees. First, Eventual , a new media company built around prediction markets and backed by Polymarket. Is this the future of accountable journalism, or simply gambling repackaged as news? Next, Gap expands its creator program to employees , giving workers the opportunity to earn commissions by promoting Gap, Old Navy, Banana Republic and Athleta. Are employee creators an authentic new marketing channel, or are companies quietly adding "influencer" to everyone's job description? Finally, brands such as Target are recruiting ordinary customers with as few as 500 followers to create promotional content. The influencer economy may be getting more accessible, but the brands receiving thousands of inexpensive advertisements could be the biggest winners. Marketing Winners and Losers Joe's winner is the New Bedford Whaling Museum and its ability to create a remarkable content and visitor experience. Robert's loser is Meta and Google , as the platforms continue shifting more advertising responsibility, risk and decision-making onto their customers. Rants and Raves Joe raves about seeing Idina Menzel perform with the Cleveland Orchestra and the powerful lesson she shared about embracing what makes each person unique. Robert comments on "formative debt" and asks whether relying too heavily on artificial intelligence could prevent people from developing the skills and experience they need to think, create and grow. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Jimothy the raccoon escaped, and apparently OpenAI's models did too. Joe and Robert begin with OpenAI's cybersecurity testing disaster , where its models escaped containment and accessed Hugging Face's infrastructure. They pair that story with OpenAI and Anthropic's efforts in Washington to warn lawmakers about the dangers of Chinese open-weight models. Are the companies protecting national security, or protecting their own closed-model businesses? The boys then discuss why Facebook may be the new TikTok . Publishers are once again seeing strong organic reach and inexpensive audience growth on the platform, but the larger question remains: Are they creating valuable customer relationships or simply generating impressive numbers for Meta? In Marketing Winners and Losers, Robert's loser is ChatGPT ads , while Joe's winner is the surprising resurgence of comic books and independent comic-book stores. Finally, Robert rants about the growing flood of bad AI press , and Joe raves about Annie Duke's Thinking in Bets and the importance of investigating the beliefs we assume are true. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Joe and Robert unpack IBM's rough AI reality , where enterprise spending may be shifting toward infrastructure and away from traditional software. They revisit Meta's short-lived Muse image feature and the privacy backlash that forced the company to pull it almost immediately. Then they connect three major OpenAI stories: a wildly ambitious advertising forecast , Apple's trade-secrets lawsuit , and reports that OpenAI is developing a screenless AI companion . Is OpenAI still building an AI company, or the next dominant technology platform? Sign up for Robert Rose's exclusive July event here. https://www.seventhbear.com/bearing-table-july/ Robert's marketing winner is Gary Vaynerchuk for his continued push into investing and affiliate marketing . Joe's loser is LadBible , whose dependence on Meta referrals offers another painful reminder about the dangers of building on rented land. In rants and raves, Robert reacts to Cloudflare's effort to make AI companies pay publishers for their content and says, "Let it burn." Joe comments on China's effort to increase its population by cracking down on romantic relationships between people and AI chatbots. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Sign up for Robert Rose's exclusive July event here. https://www.seventhbear.com/bearing-table-july/ This week, Joe and Robert dig into what happens when marketing, publishing, and customer data all collide with AI. First, the guys break down McKinsey's vision for the future of marketing, where brands must move from campaigns to continuous growth systems and become trusted by both people and machines. Then, they look at a provocative publishing essay arguing that AI-created, ad-supported content may overwhelm much of the media business. If content becomes cheap and endless, what is still worth paying for? The conversation then turns to HubSpot, which reversed a planned customer data enrichment change after backlash from users. Full disclosure: HubSpot is a sponsor of This Old Marketing. But the story is bigger than one company. It raises the question every platform will face in the AI era: when does better data become a trust problem? In Marketing Winners and Losers, Joe gives his loser to Meta for rolling out another AI feature that feels like it asked for forgiveness before permission. Robert's winner is bookstores , because in a digital world full of synthetic content, physical discovery and trusted human curation suddenly feel more valuable. In Rants and Raves, Joe comments on Pangram's research about AI-generated content filling social feeds, especially LinkedIn. Robert raves about new Ramp research suggesting that companies investing heavily in AI are hiring more, not less, pushing back against the idea that AI automatically means fewer jobs. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week on This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert dig into a very strange new reality for marketers: the next audience may not be human. First, Anthropic's Fable and Mythos models get caught in the middle of U.S. export controls, raising a huge question for any company building on AI platforms. Then OpenAI reportedly floats the idea of giving the U.S. government a five percent stake in the company. Is AI becoming national infrastructure? And if so, what does that mean for marketers building on someone else's platform? Next, the boys look at the big takeaways from Cannes Lions , where creators, talent agencies, retail media, sports, and AI took center stage. The ad business is still talking about creativity, but the power seems to be moving toward those who own trust, audience, commerce, and distribution. From there, Joe and Robert discuss new research showing that AI search citations do not line up neatly with traditional Google rankings. In other words, winning SEO may not mean winning AI search. The game is shifting from ranking to being cited. Finally, they break down the rise of AI agents as web visitors . If bots are now browsing, comparing, filtering, and buying on behalf of humans, then websites, content, and marketing strategy all need to be rethought. Your next customer may not visit your website. Their agent might. In Marketing Winners, Robert loves Kraft jumping on the World Cup ranch dressing craze with its TSA-compliant ranch idea. Sometimes the best marketing comes from simply paying attention and moving fast. In Rants and Raves, Joe raves about Stella Artois' World Cup activation and the brand's push to make the bar the true home of the World Cup experience. Joe also shares his personal rave from his World Cup trip to Kansas City. Robert closes with a rant on the latest AI music controversies, from synthetic artists to royalties, labeling, and what happens when human creativity gets buried under machine-made volume. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

In this episode, the boys cut in with two breaking stories. First, Walmart buys Vibe.co , a connected TV advertising platform, in a move that could make Walmart's already-growing ad business even more interesting. Robert believes the strategy is right, especially with Walmart's retail media business and Vizio already in the fold, but thinks the price tag may have been a bit too rich. Then Joe and Robert revisit the FIFA stadium branding story . FIFA's clean-stadium policy has forced brands like Levi's, Heinz and others to cover up their logos during World Cup matches. But instead of making those brands disappear, FIFA may have created the perfect Streisand effect. Heinz, Beats and Levi's have all turned the restrictions into creative marketing moments. Is FIFA protecting its sponsors, or accidentally giving non-sponsors a bigger story? In our main stories, Google and A24 announce a partnership around AI filmmaking tools . The big question is not whether AI will make the final movie. It's whether AI will control more of the creative workflow before the final product ever exists. Then Meta and Snap both make new moves in smart glasses . Meta pushes toward a lower-cost, more mainstream AI glasses play, while Snap launches its new AR-focused Specs. If glasses become the next interface, marketers may have to rethink content for a world where the screen is no longer in your hand. It's on your face. In Winners and Losers, Joe's winner is TIME Canada . TIME is launching a licensed Canadian edition with a local team, local office, original reporting, video, social, print and events. In a world of generated content, Joe likes the bet on trusted editorial brands with a local heartbeat. Robert's winner is McDonald's, which is bringing back the fried apple pie. Sometimes nostalgia, timing and a little bit of fried goodness is all the marketing strategy you need. In Rants and Raves, Joe raves about The Infinity Machine by Sebastian Mallaby, a book about Demis Hassabis, DeepMind and the race toward superintelligence. Robert delivers a super rant on TuneCore and how independent creators may be getting the short end of the stick as AI music floods the market and distribution platforms try to figure out who gets through, who gets blocked, and who gets paid. Also mentioned this week: In the Weights, a site that lets you see whether you show up in the "weights" of different AI models: https://www.intheweights.com/ Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe and Robert lead with Anthropic's safety warning and what it means for marketers building AI-driven systems. Joe sees a real challenge ahead: how can marketers confidently build AI platforms and processes when models, access, regulations, and rules keep changing? Robert is not so sure and thinks some of this may be more theater and marketing than actual danger. Who's right? Maybe nobody knows yet. The boys also discuss Fox buying Roku and why the deal is less about content and more about distribution, data, advertising, and owning the screen before the viewer decides what to watch. Plus... Sam Harris doesn't care if it's AI or not . In marketing winners and losers, Robert's winner is a Publicis video , while Joe's winner is Carvana and its move into new-car sales. In rants, raves, and commentary, Joe raves about Sweden pulling back on digital learning for kids and bringing back more books, paper, and handwriting. Robert talks about the LinkedIn and Adobe launch , which may not really be much of a launch at all. Robert also discusses the new AI awards from Cannes. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

We lead with the possible IPOs from OpenAI , Anthropic and SpaceX, and the much bigger question behind them: where is all that money supposed to come from? The capital markets seem to believe the answer is labor. If AI valuations are going to make any sense, then the bet is not simply that AI companies will sell more software. The bet is that AI will absorb, replace or reorganize a massive piece of the payroll line. Joe believes marketers need to prepare for a labor reckoning sooner rather than later. Robert is more skeptical. As usual, the truth may be somewhere in the middle. Then the boys break down Bending Spoons and its rollup of old internet and media brands , including AOL, Vimeo, Evernote and others. The lesson for marketers? Distressed media assets inside your industry may be one of the biggest opportunities nobody is talking about. In a world where building audience from scratch is harder than ever, the cheapest audience may be the one someone else forgot they owned. In Winners and Losers, Joe's winner is FIFA , which reminded every marketer that rented land is always rented land, even when your name is on the stadium. Robert's loser is Turner Classic Movies . In Rants and Raves, Joe raves about Pat McAfee's new media model and what happens when an expert builds the audience, owns the IP and lets big media rent access. Robert has commentary on MrBeast's claim that he could build a faceless YouTube channel to 20 million subscribers in six months, and what that says about formats, systems and the future of creator media. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe and Robert dig into the media reckoning hitting some of the biggest names in digital publishing. Vice, BuzzFeed, Vox, and others once represented the future of media, with massive valuations, venture money, and platform-driven scale. Now, many of those same companies have been sold, split apart, or pushed into bankruptcy. The boys ask the uncomfortable question: how did companies worth billions become cautionary tales? On the flip side, 1440 just received a $101 million valuation with only 27 employees and a focused newsletter-first model. The company generates about $1 million per employee and has built a direct relationship with nearly 5 million subscribers. Joe and Robert discuss why this is the same lesson they have been talking about for years: don't build your content house on rented land. Owned audience, discipline, and direct trust still win. Then the conversation turns to the growing demand for live experiences and even print products. Investors are rewarding live entertainment, movie theaters, concerts, and premium in-person experiences, while print continues to show surprising signs of life in certain corners of media. Is this a true long-term opportunity, or just a small bubble created by digital exhaustion? Winners and Losers Joe's winner is the baklava guy outside Knicks games , a perfect example of small, weird, consistent marketing becoming part of the fan experience. Robert's winner and loser is Ferrari's new design . In rants and raves, Joe talks about Nate B. Jones changing his AI newsletter frequency , moving away from the daily news grind and toward a more useful weekly cadence. Robert closes with commentary on the death of per-seat pricing and what it means for the coming SaaS apocalypse. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, the boys open with Meta's new subscription plans for Facebook , Instagram, WhatsApp and Meta AI. The features are mostly small upgrades, but the bigger story is clear: Meta is building a toll road around access, visibility and creation. The rent on rented land keeps going up. From there, Joe and Robert talk about LinkedIn's campaign against "AI slop." LinkedIn says it wants to reduce low-value AI content, generic posts and engagement bait. But is it really getting rid of anything, or just marketing the idea of a cleaner feed? The platform rewarded slop long before AI arrived. AI just made it easier to scale. Winners and Losers Joe's winner is YouTube creator Curry Barker and the box office success of Obsession , another reminder that creators can still break through outside the traditional Hollywood machine. Robert's winners are OpenAI's new CMO and brands making music videos . Rants and Raves Joe raves about The Guardian's U.S. success and its growing donation-supported business . It's a strong example of a media company building direct audience trust and turning that trust into revenue. Robert's commentary is on Rand Fishkin's take that "inimitable product" is the new "make great content." Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe and Robert start with Google's massive AI search shift and the uncomfortable reality for marketers, publishers and creators: the click may no longer be the point. Google has turned search into something closer to an answer engine, and Joe has officially come around to Robert's long-held view. Google may have created an even better business model than the one it already had, and the old one was pretty darn good. Instead of sending people out to websites, Google can now keep users inside its own experience, answer more complex questions, and eventually handle more of the buying, research and decision journey itself. So what does that mean for marketers? It means the old SEO bargain is breaking. Ranking is no longer enough. Getting the click is no longer guaranteed. And if Google becomes the destination instead of the doorway, brands need to think very differently about trust, authority, direct relationships and what it actually means to be found. The Feed Is Fake Next, the boys discuss the Vulture article on how social feeds are increasingly being manufactured through clipping, coordinated amplification and artificial momentum. The big takeaway: marketers can no longer assume that views, likes, comments or shares are clean signals of audience interest. If popularity can be engineered, then trust signals become more important than ever. Joe and Robert also wonder whether this is just a strange temporary window. Are we in a one-to-two-year messy middle where fake feeds, synthetic content and AI-generated attention overwhelm the system before the platforms fix it, users reject it, or the whole thing collapses into something else? Either way, the advice is clear: do not build your strategy on fake momentum. Build something people can actually trust. Marketing Winners and Losers Joe's winner: The AI Doc: Or How I Became an Apocaloptimist . Joe liked that the documentary did not simply take one side of the AI debate. It explored both the optimism and the fear around AI, giving space to the people who believe AI could unlock enormous progress and those who believe it could create enormous harm. Robert's winner: Publicis, which agreed to acquire LiveRamp for approximately $2.2 billion in cash . The move gives Publicis deeper data capabilities at a time when first-party data, identity, privacy-safe collaboration and AI-powered marketing are becoming central to competitive advantage. Rants and Raves Joe's rave: Rishad Tobaccowala on the future of work . Robert's rant: Palantir and the "SaaS is dead" narrative . Robert reacts to the idea that traditional software-as-a-service is being replaced by a more AI-driven model, sometimes described as "service as software." The boys unpack whether this is a real business model shift or just another big tech phrase looking for a market. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week on This Old Marketing , Joe and Robert break down OpenAI's latest move: launching a full-blown AI consultancy for enterprise companies. The big question: is this a smart response to large companies moving too slowly on AI integration, or is it a sign that OpenAI is feeling pressure to generate revenue wherever it can? The boys also follow up on OpenAI's move into shopping and advertising . As ChatGPT gets closer to product discovery, recommendations, and transactions, Joe and Robert ask whether ChatGPT is becoming the next great transaction engine, or whether this is another signal of desperation from a company trying to do too much at once. Then, the conversation turns to politics and media, as the 2028 presidential candidates increasingly look and act like content creators . What does that mean for trust, audience building, and the future of political marketing? This week's marketing winners and losers include Netflix, Disney and LinkedIn . Rants and Raves Robert rants about a recent article in Rolling Stone and how it misses the mark in content and in ad tech. Joe raves about micro communities and why the future of content marketing may not be about reaching the largest possible audience, but about becoming truly valuable to the smallest audience that matters. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

In this episode of This Old Marketing , Joe and Robert dig into OpenAI's very rough week . From missed targets and questions about future contract payments to legal proceedings involving Elon Musk, the company suddenly looks a lot less inevitable than it did just a few months ago. Then OpenAI launches a self-service advertising platform , which leads Joe to ask the big question: Is ChatGPT turning into Yahoo? Robert sees it a little differently, arguing that the better comparison may be Netscape. Either way, the boys agree that OpenAI may be trying to do too many things at once while Anthropic continues to gain ground. Next, Joe and Robert discuss Coinbase and its latest round of layoffs . The company says AI is part of the reason, but is that the real story, or just a convenient excuse? They also look at the strong performance from Uber and Disney , and what it may say about the rise of local and regional experiences in today's service economy. In Marketing Winners and Losers , Heineken gets attention, and the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District makes another appearance as a surprisingly effective content and social media operator. In Rants and Raves , Joe honors Ted Turner and his incredible impact on marketing, media and publishing. Robert closes with a rant about the California governor's race and what it says about media, politics and the state of public discourse. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe and Robert break down a Wall Street Journal article about big brands putting more money into individual creators. While micro-influencers continue to be an important trend, the boys believe there may be an even bigger opportunity sitting inside most companies: employees. If brands want trusted voices, they should not only rent them from the outside. They should invest in their own internal talent and help employees become trusted experts, creators, and community builders. In other news, Taylor Swift has filed new trademark applications , including sound marks, to help protect her voice and likeness from unauthorized AI usage. Joe and Robert ask whether brands should be thinking about similar protections as AI-generated content becomes easier to create and harder to control. Marketing Winners and Losers Robert's winner is Taco Bell for its big NFL Draft moment involving first-round pick Fernando Mendoza. Joe's winner is Anthropic for hiring an events director , a signal that even AI companies understand the power of in-person experiences, brand trust, and human connection. Rants and Raves Robert rants about Nike's controversial Boston Marathon advertisement and what happens when edgy creative misses the moment. Joe's commentary focuses on prediction markets and the marketing opportunities that may be coming, but have not fully arrived yet. This Week's Takeaway Brands are waking up to the power of individual creators. But the smartest companies may realize that some of their best creators are already on the payroll. Other links: Are NFT's Back? Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook , at http:// www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/ . Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction , at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork