ABA Journal Podcasts - Legal Talk Network

Have you heard about artificial intelligence-native law firms? The potential time savings are astronomical and could maybe even upend the traditional billable hour. But the drawbacks are also real.

In the past few years, more and more states have been considering or implementing different pathways to the bar that involve hands-on work in real-world legal practices that is evaluated by bar examiners. How each state’s program works varies, but many involve law students or graduates working with supervision in legal deserts, helping to ease access-to-justice issues, as well.

Defined as the practice of using artificial intelligence tools to create software through verbal prompts and then having the AI write the underlying code based on those prompts, vibe coding has plenty of applications and implications for lawyers. Lawyers can create all sorts of programs and applications to help make them more productive. But of course, with any powerful technological tool, there are some risks and things you should be careful of.

Arbitration has emerged as a faster, more streamlined option for parties looking to resolve disputes. The emergence of generative artificial intelligence has supercharged arbitration even more.

Most lawyers probably have bad memories of high school physics and would rather get held in contempt of court than learn about quantum mechanics. They might change their tune when they learn about the potential and promise of quantum computing.

If you look at this year’s ABA Techshow advertising material, you could be forgiven for thinking that you were reading a comic book. Between the cartoon-style illustrations and the comic book-style captions and headings on the brochure and website, it’s clear what motif that the Techshow planners were going for was. Perhaps that’s appropriate, given how quickly generative artificial intelligence tools have established a foothold in the legal industry. Like a superhero—or perhaps more accurately, a superhero’s sidekick—AI has helped save the day for a lot of lawyers.

Let’s talk about every lawyer’s favorite subject: exams. It seems like every day, there’s another threshold that generative artificial intelligence crosses. First, it was able to take a bar exam and do reasonably well. Then it was able to ace it. Same with law school exams. Right now, AI would probably graduate at the top of its class, edit law review and land a six-figure associate’s job with an Am Law 50 firm. Now comes another milestone.

In 2025, we saw greater adoption of generative artificial intelligence tools across all areas of the legal industry. Will 2026 bring more of the same? Or will there be a backlash or reaction of some sort? What about the regulatory landscape for AI? Will 2026 bring federal guidelines, or will we have to wait for 2027 or beyond?

All in all, it’s shown that the legal industry, traditionally known as a staid, conservative and risk-averse profession, is undergoing a period of rapid change and transformation.

According to an October report from the Association of Corporate Counsel, generative AI use among in-house lawyers has more than doubled over the last year. More than half of respondents are now actively using generative AI in their practice—compared to only 23% in 2024. The survey also said two-thirds of respondents are using it so that they can eventually rely less on outside counsel, and over 60% are likely to push for a change in how legal services are priced.

As Halloween swiftly approaches, we’ve conjured up a classic from the Modern Law Library crypt. What do zombies and pirates have to do with the law? Grab your candy and find out as host Lee Rawles is joined by Paul Golden, author of Litigating Adverse Possession Cases: Pirates v. Zombies. —---- “Trespassing plus time equals adverse possession,” Paul Golden writes in his new book, Litigating Adverse Possession Cases: Pirates v. Zombies. When someone has occupied or used a piece of property as though they own it for long enough, a court could determine that they are the rightful owner—regardless of what the paperwork says. It’s a concept more popularly discussed as squatter’s rights. In this episode of The Modern Law Library, Golden speaks with the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles about the ancient concepts underlying modern adverse possession law; some quirky state laws; and why societies would allow land to be transferred in this way. They also discuss how the plain meaning of terms like “hostile” are changed when used in adverse possession cases, and Rawles raises a hypothetical—taken from real life—of a neighbor’s crooked fence. During Golden’s first appearance on The Modern Law Library, he explained how the lack of a written contract could be navigated by a savvy lawyer. In his new book, Golden guides attorneys and their clients through the finer points of arguing for and against adverse possession claims. He shares some of the errors he’s seen pop up in adverse possession cases, and offers advice for how to avoid common pitfalls.

When Clio announced that it had acquired global legal research platform vLex for $1 billion in June, it was the latest in a series of big moves from the cloud-based practice management software company.

As the Supreme Court returns to the bench, we’re raising a glass to a favorite from our archives. In this episode, Nancy Maveety shares stories from Glass and Gavel, where cocktails meet constitutional law. ----- From the earliest days of the U.S. Supreme Court, alcohol has been part of the work lives and social lives of the justices. In the book “Glass and Gavel: The U.S. Supreme Court and Alcohol,” Nancy Maveety takes readers on a tour through the ways that SCOTUS and spirits have overlapped. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, she speaks with the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles about how she came to write this in-depth history. While the Prohibition Era would immediately spring to mind, the court faced a number of cases involving alcohol that impacted commerce, advertising, criminal justice and even gender discrimination laws. Maveety, who in addition to being a scholar of constitutional law also studies mixology, shares how she selected a signature cocktail for each chief justice’s tenure. She also has a drink suggestion for readers which incorporates an ingredient that’s known to be one of Justice Ginsburg’s favorites–and a cautionary tale about a normally teetotaling chief justice who dropped dead after sipping a sherry.

As Native American Day approaches on September 25, we’re revisiting a story that still resonates today. Author David Grann takes us inside the Osage murders—a chilling chapter in U.S. history where oil wealth brought tragedy, corruption, and the rise of the FBI. ----- Although the Osage tribe had been forced from their ancestral lands by the U.S. government, through shrewd and careful bargaining they retained the mineral rights to one of the richest oil fields in the world: Osage County, Oklahoma. But instead of insuring the prosperity and safety of the tribe, the wealth of the Osage made them targets for what was later known as the Reign of Terror. The task of solving dozens of murders fell in the 1920s to the newly formed FBI and its young director, J. Edgar Hoover. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, author David Grann tells the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles how he first learned of this series of murders and decided to write Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI. He also discusses the brave Osage woman at the heart of his story, Mollie Burkhart, who defied the local white-dominated power structure to discover who was responsible for the deaths of her family members. Mentioned in This Episode: Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI by David Grann

Querious utilizes the power of generative AI to listen into a conversation and deliver real-time insights based on what it hears. Essentially, it’s like having another person in the room with you—only one who knows all the answers and can access information faster than anyone else.

As summer winds down and school beckons, we’re looking back in our archives and assigning some back-to-school reading—grown-up style. In this episode, Professor Kathryne M. Young shares advice from her book How to Be Sort of Happy in Law School—from tackling imposter syndrome to finding your own path through law school’s pressures. —-- Law school can be a lonely, stressful time, and it’s easy to feel like you’re failing to fit the model of the perfect law student. But there’s no one right way to go to law school, says Professor Kathryne M. Young, author of How to Be Sort of Happy in Law School; you can craft your own experience. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Young talks with the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles about tackling imposter syndrome; advice that alumni wish they could give their younger selves; and techniques for getting along with your fellow students. Young uses lessons from her own law school experience and a sociological study she conducted to give practical tips for keeping a mental balance; choosing which courses and activities to pursue; managing the practical aspects of your household and budget; forming relationships with mentors and peers–and even deciding when if it’s time to leave law school altogether. Young’s book offers a holistic approach to surviving–and thriving–under the social, academic and economic pressures of law school.

As summer winds down and school beckons, we’re looking back in our archives and assigning some back-to-school reading—grown-up style. In this episode, Judge Robert Bacharach shares insights from his book on the science of persuasive legal writing and why judges love to talk about language. —-- There’s plenty of conventional wisdom about what makes a good legal brief or court opinion. Judge Robert E. Bacharach of the Denver-based 10th Circuit Court of Appeals says that when judges socialize, their conversations often devolve into discussions about language and pieces of writing they enjoy or revile. But Bacharach decided he wanted to dive deeper, to see what the science of psycholinguistics could teach lawyers and judges about how written words persuade an audience. The result was his new book, Legal Writing: A Judge’s Perspective on the Science and Rhetoric of the Written Word, published by the ABA. Legal Writing is a slim volume, but it’s packed with tips. It considers details as microscopic as a serif on a letter and as macroscopic as how to create an outline for an argument. In this episode of the Modern Law Library podcast, Bacharach chats about his own writing process; shares his top takeaways from the psycholinguists he consulted; and offers his advice for young litigators looking to hone their skills.

For decades, the Uniform Bar Examination has been old school, with bar candidates using paper-and-pencil exam books. But starting with the first administration of the NextGen UBE next year, the test will be entirely conducted on the examinees’ personal computers. The ABA Journal’s Julianne Hill talks with Kara Smith, the National Conference of Bar Examiners’ chief product officer.

With a new legal thriller on the horizon, we're revisiting James Patterson’s 2024 interview about #1 Lawyer. The bestselling author shares how he builds courtroom suspense and what makes a legal story truly gripping. —-- James Patterson has written bestsellers in many genres. But as he tells the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles in this episode of The Modern Law Library, he has always been fascinated by legal thrillers, courtroom dramas and crime novels. He even considered becoming a lawyer, before his literary career took off. In his newest release, The #1 Lawyer, James Patterson partnered with co-author Nancy Allen to tell the story of Stafford Lee Penney, a criminal defense attorney in Biloxi, Mississippi, who’s never lost a case. But after handing a high-profile murder trial involving the son of a mobster, Penney finds himself on the other side of the bench as a defendant himself, charged with murdering his own wife. Patterson has written and co-written more than 300 books, including bestselling series like Alex Cross, Women’s Murder Club and Maximum Ride. He had some writing tips for attorneys, particularly on how to work collaboratively. As Patterson tells listeners in the podcast, he is open about working with other writers on many of his books, and he finds tools like outlining absolutely essential. He also shares with Rawles how he thinks co-writers should handle interpersonal communication while working together. Patterson says one of the major benefits of working with co-authors is pulling from their experiences to make his books more accurate and true to life. When he wrote The President is Missing with Bill Clinton, the former president could tell Patterson the inside details of how a Secret Service detail worked. When he wrote Run, Rose, Run with Dolly Parton, she walked him through the production cycle for a song. Allen, who conducted more than 30 jury trials as a prosecutor in Missouri and taught law for 15 years at Missouri State University, contributed her firsthand courtroom experience to The #1 Lawyer. Patterson says they worked to make everything as accurate as possible—while still allowing for a good story. It’s the pair’s second book together, following a previous standalone novel, Juror #3. In this episode of The Modern Law Library, Patterson shares some of his favorite law-related pop culture picks; news about new and ongoing projects; and describes a very special birthday event with Dolly Parton. He also discusses how his children’s series Maximum Ride got caught up in Florida book bans in 2023. For fans of Patterson’s breakout success, the Alex Cross series launched in 1993 with Along Came a Spider, the author shares updates about what’s next for the intrepid detective—including details about the upcoming Amazon Prime TV series Cross, starring Aldis Hodge.

With a new legal thriller on the horizon, we're revisiting James Patterson’s 2024 interview about #1 Lawyer. The bestselling author shares how he builds courtroom suspense and what makes a legal story truly gripping. —-- James Patterson has written bestsellers in many genres. But as he tells the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles in this episode of The Modern Law Library, he has always been fascinated by legal thrillers, courtroom dramas and crime novels. He even considered becoming a lawyer, before his literary career took off. In his newest release, The #1 Lawyer, James Patterson partnered with co-author Nancy Allen to tell the story of Stafford Lee Penney, a criminal defense attorney in Biloxi, Mississippi, who’s never lost a case. But after handing a high-profile murder trial involving the son of a mobster, Penney finds himself on the other side of the bench as a defendant himself, charged with murdering his own wife. Patterson has written and co-written more than 300 books, including bestselling series like Alex Cross, Women’s Murder Club and Maximum Ride. He had some writing tips for attorneys, particularly on how to work collaboratively. As Patterson tells listeners in the podcast, he is open about working with other writers on many of his books, and he finds tools like outlining absolutely essential. He also shares with Rawles how he thinks co-writers should handle interpersonal communication while working together. Patterson says one of the major benefits of working with co-authors is pulling from their experiences to make his books more accurate and true to life. When he wrote The President is Missing with Bill Clinton, the former president could tell Patterson the inside details of how a Secret Service detail worked. When he wrote Run, Rose, Run with Dolly Parton, she walked him through the production cycle for a song. Allen, who conducted more than 30 jury trials as a prosecutor in Missouri and taught law for 15 years at Missouri State University, contributed her firsthand courtroom experience to The #1 Lawyer. Patterson says they worked to make everything as accurate as possible—while still allowing for a good story. It’s the pair’s second book together, following a previous standalone novel, Juror #3. In this episode of The Modern Law Library, Patterson shares some of his favorite law-related pop culture picks; news about new and ongoing projects; and describes a very special birthday event with Dolly Parton. He also discusses how his children’s series Maximum Ride got caught up in Florida book bans in 2023. For fans of Patterson’s breakout success, the Alex Cross series launched in 1993 with Along Came a Spider, the author shares updates about what’s next for the intrepid detective—including details about the upcoming Amazon Prime TV series Cross, starring Aldis Hodge.