On The Call

Xero's aggressive AI pivot has sent morale inside the accounting software company into freefall, with engineers fearing they're building their own replacements. Meanwhile, the Albanese government's battle against big tech has a new target: the algorithms, with a digital duty of care proposal that would let users opt out of algorithmic feeds. We discuss: Sinking morale at Xero and the forced-ranking performance measurement behind it. Why engineers fear they're training their own replacement. The culture clash between Xero's US-based executive team and its Australian and New Zealand staff. Shareholder anger over Xero CEO Sukhinder Singh Cassidy's $25 million pay packet. An influencer ad and an automated email mishap that has turned off a core segment of Xero’s user base, accountants. Why Atlassian and Salesforce have bounced back from the SaaSpocalypse and Xero hasn’t. What's in the digital duty of care, and the "My Feed, My Way" campaign. The Coalition and One Nation’s opposition to the proposal. Albanese's algorithm theory of One Nation's rise and whether this policy is the answer to it. The needle Labor has to thread: regulating big tech while courting billions in AI data centre investment On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEST: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

Agentic AI in banking has moved from drafting documents to moving money — and there’s an unanswered question on who's liable when bots are actioning transactions. Recorded live at Fintech Australia's Intersekt conference, the Capital Brief newsroom digs into the RBA's fintech regulation review, and where the big banks and the startup ecosystem sit not he agentic AI opportunity. We discuss: The disintermediation threat: what happens to the big banks when your money moves itself to the best provider The RBA submissions divide — CBA, ANZ and Westpac urge for fast regulation, while NAB, Fintech Australia and the Tech Council say it's too early Who's liable when a bot makes a decision its human owner never authorised? Payment authority vs payment execution, and why that distinction is essential to answer the liability question. Why scam education built around human manipulation doesn't translate to agents Whether public discomfort with handing over financial agency reduces over time. On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEST: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

Support for Pauline Hanson slides in the latest Capital Brief–Demos AU poll, with the sharpest drop among women — positive views falling 13 points since June while negative views jumped 15 points. Meanwhile, less than a quarter of Australians would support a data centre being built in their area, and 44% oppose the idea outright. We discuss: One Nation's five-point primary vote collapse and whether the Pauline Hanson bubble is bursting. The stark gender split driving the plunge and he facors contributing to the shift including Hanson's Press Club appearance, Sicily trip with Gina Rinehart, and commentary on reproductive rights and domestic violence. Angus Taylor's four-point climb and his efforts to rehabilitate the Coalition’s image. One Nation's migration blow-up and the two very different constituencies Hanson now has to keep happy. Australia's favourite PMs: Bob Hawke in first place and Scott Morrison in last and the gender split on Julia Gillard. Data centre scepticism and whether opposition to data centres is ordinary NIMBYism or an early political backlash against AI. On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEDT: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

Canva is facing AI token fraudsters who are exploiting loopholes to access AI credits beyond normal limits, with some later sold on grey markets. This comes as two of Canva’s earliest backers, Blackbird and Airtree, wrote down its valuation by 17% to USD34.9 billion. Meanwhile, BHP posted a blockbuster USD9.8 billion profit — and for the first time, copper contributes more than half of the miner's earnings as the AI data centre boom rewrites Australia's mining story. We discuss: How token fraud works and why Canva's AI product made it a target for organised scammers. How this scam plays out across Claude, ChatGPT, and other subsidised AI subscriptions. Blackbird and AirTree's 17% valuation cut and what it signals about the lag between public and private market pricing. Canva's revenue growth slowdown and the unit. economics of running an AI business versus a classic SaaS model. Whether the $12 billion valuation floated by 20VC is defensible. How SaaS companies are repositioning their data as a moat. BHP's copper boom. Australia's familiar role in the AI era — digging things up and sending them overseas. On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEST: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

In an exclusive interview with Capital Brief’s Matthew Franklin and Katina Curtis, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said he wants Australia to lead the world on AI regulation. He says his move to legislate AI regulatory standards could become a global model, and points to the Labor government’s social media ban as inspiration for this step. Albanese also spoke to gambling advertisement reforms being debated in parliament, warning that banning gambling ads outright would be incredibly damaging to free-to-air television networks. We discuss: Albanese's UN pitch to make Australia's AI regulation a global model The PM's admission that he doesn't personally use AI and Canberra’s reaction to the revelation South Australia's Royal Commission into AI, days after Peter Malinauskas signed an MOU with OpenAI The long road to gambling ad reform and extraordinary Senate evidence on the use of inducements by gambling companies Albanese's argument that gambling ad revenue is propping up free-to-air TV Albanese's strategy for countering Pauline Hanson, to defeat with optimism On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEST: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

Community anger over AI data centres has found its epicentre in Sydney's Lane Cove of all places, a well-heeled North Shore suburb now facing five proposed data centres in its industrial park. Meanwhile, AI infrastructure company Firmus is turning on the charm offensive to win over sceptical communities in Tasmania and South Australia as it pushes ahead with its "AI factory" ambitions. We discuss: Why Lane Cove's proximity to Sydney’s CBD, power and fibre infrastructure makes it a prime location for data centres. How an organised, high-income resident base has turned Lane Cove into a flashpoint of grassroots opposition. AI infrastructure company and ASX hopeful Firmus hustling to win over communities in South Australia and Tasmania that are resistant to its ambitious projects. Widespread national unease about living near data centres and fears over AI-driven job losses. Anthony Albanese’s national AI agenda and why Queensland and Northern Territory aren’t on board. What EY's new modelling says about AI's likely GDP impact and job creation How the US data centre backlash — from New York's moratorium to local anger over jobs and power — is shaping the debate playing in Australia On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEST: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

Eucalyptus co-founder Tim Doyle joins the Capital Brief newsroom for On The Call’s first ever guest episode. Doyle has been one of the most prominent voices in the startup sector’s response to Labor’s capital gains tax reforms, arguing the sector’s backlash against the reforms is rooted in self interest. This discussion revisits the debate and where the discourse on the tax reforms has landed. It also delves into the USD1.15 billion sale of Eucalyptus to Hims and Hers, as well as Doyle’s takes on the future of healthcare. We discuss: Tim Doyle's past gig buying political ads for Labor and his view on the social media proficiency of Pauline Hanson’s fast rising One Nation party Parallels between the fracturing of political parties and the disruption of mega-brands like Nike Zohran Mamdani's campaign playbook and what global politicians are copying from it Why Doyle thinks the tech industry's backlash to Labor's CGT changes was 'absurd" The case for carving out CGT relief for startup employees, not just founders Australia's shortage of experienced startup CFOs and operators to scale companies past Series A How young Australians' risk appetite is misunderstood Life reporting to a CEO again, and what he's learned from Hims and Hers' bolder capital allocation The rise of consumer-led healthcare, AI diagnosis, and the regulatory challenges of an empowered patient What's next as Eucalyptus's brands fold into the Hims and Hers name On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEDT: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

A new report suggests that Australia has seen the strongest first half in venture funding since 2022 — but the number of deals is actually a quite a bit lower. Meanwhile, the conversation around Chinese AI is heating up with the release of new frontier model Kimi K3 and Xi Jinping’s speech at a major Chinese AI conference. We discuss: The numbers in the new Cut Through Venture report Whether the reduction in deal numbers is a warning sign — or just evidence of where the market is going globally The ongoing instability in software investment, in Australia and beyond How AI is changing the venture capital landscape China’s ambitions in AI Australia’s position in the AI boom between the US and China. On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Stand-in host James Hennessy sits down with Capital Brief's journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEST: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

AI giant Anthropic is circling Australia, with reports suggesting it is looking to secure a massive amount of data centre capacity Down Under. That has kicked off a cycle of debate about what companies will build those data centres, whether copyright reform will be needed, and the biggest question of all: is this good for Australia? We discuss: The leaked request for proposal which revealed Anthropic's Australian plans The shares that popped on the news The uncertainty over whether Anthropic plans to train new models here A counterintuitive take on the copyright reform debate Why former industry minister Ed Husic is a skeptical voice The growing data centre backlash in Australia How the global markets are feeling about the AI boom On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEST: ⁠ https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekday newsletter, The Edition: ⁠ https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

KPMG's whistleblower scandal has snowballed into a reckoning for the Big Four. A number of senior executives have resigned. Lendlease has ended its 68 year old relationship with the firm. Government departments, including the Reserve Bank of Australia and the Australian National Audit Office have put their contracts with the firm for its own whistleblower service under review. Now, Assistant Treasurer Daniel Mulino is weighing tougher rules for the sector. We discuss: KPMG's whistleblower scandal and the parliamentary testimony that took it to the next level. The cascading resignations and client losses, including the RBA, ATO and Australian National Audit Office dropping KPMG's FairCall service. Are Australia's whistleblower protection laws strong enough? The role of external law firms Ashurst and Allens in KPMG's internal investigations. The callback to PwC’s tax scandal and EY allegations over the Prime Minister's bank details and what they say about cultural issues across the Big Four. Assistant Treasurer Daniel Mulino's consultation paper and the case for splitting audit from consulting. On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEDT: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

The latest Capital Brief/DemosAU poll shows the Coalition's primary vote has collapsed 5% in a single month, putting the Liberal party closer to the Greens than to One Nation. Meanwhile, Labor's CGT and negative gearing reforms have passed the Senate after a deal with the Greens. We discuss: The Coalition's freefall and why Angus Taylor is struggling to cut through. One Nation's social media dominance. Whether or not preference flows will work in Pauline Hanson’s favour. The global trend of insurgent right-wing parties cannibalising the centre-right. Labor's loss of female support and what's driving it The Greens deal with Labor to pass the CGT and negative gearing tax reforms - SMSF borrowing to buy property Eucalyptus founder Tim Doyle's provocative call for founders to stop their uproar about CGT reform On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEDT: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

Labor revealed its long-awaited CGT carve-outs for startups and small businesses minutes before Capital Brief went live with this conversation. Meanwhile, complexities arise around Canva's path to IPO as its first investor puts forward the bear case. We discuss: The nuts and bolts of the CGT carve-out announcement. What the Innovative Business CGT Concession will mean for startups, VCs and ESOP holders. The challenges yet to be resolved, including defining what a startup actually is. How the startup sector grew up in public through this fight, and what it means for its relationship with Canberra Albanese's pivot to talking about One Nation Bill Tai's leaked comments on Canva's IPO challenges and the bear case for Australia's beloved design giant. Canva's awkward transition from SaaS darling to AI company. On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEST: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

This week, Newspoll had One Nation jumping ahead of Labor on the primary vote, confirming what the exclusive DemosAU and Capital Brief poll first revealed last month. Meanwhile, frustration over the government's capital gains tax reforms continues to mount. We discuss: One Nation's polling surge and why both Labor and the Coalition have been slow to respond. Tony Abbott's new role as President of the Liberal Party. Expectations for the upcoming Victorian state election. Why the CGT changes are both a political and policy mistake. Malcolm Turnbull's call to separate residential and non-residential CGT changes. The government’s too little too late CGT consultations. Australia's $422 passport — the most expensive in the world. On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEST: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

The collapse of Dashdot — one of Australia's most prominent buyer's agencies — raises a bigger question about whether the property market is hitting an inflection point. Meanwhile, Anthropic files for a blockbuster IPO in a trillion-dollar race with SpaceX and OpenAI. We discuss: Dashdot's collapse being a significant signal of a turning property market. The role of negative gearing and CGT changes in investor appetite Rising insolvency risks across property-related businesses, from buyer's agents to mortgage brokers The political difficulty of making housing more affordable when existing owners are disadvantaged Anthropic's Claude Mythos expansion to 200 organisations and the confusion in Australia about who's on the list Anthropic, OpenAI, and SpaceX racing to be first to IPO Whether or not public markets can absorb three trillion-dollar floats at once On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEST: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

OpenAI CEO Sam Altman's giant pixelated head looming over CBA chief executive Matt Comyn at the bank's inaugural AI summit is a somewhat honest depiction of Australia’s place in the global AI economy at present. While CBA wants to lead Australia’s AI race, technology giants are still the ones wielding the power. Meanwhile, in the aftermath of the federal budget the big four banks and Macquarie have called time on negative gearing, folding to intense pressure and formally tightening policies around lending to investors using the tax break. We discuss: Sam Altman's appearance at CBA’s AI conference and his mixed messages The impending collision between CBA's war on extractive US tech and its deepening AI partnerships Whether Altman's pitch for Australia as a data centre superpower is an honest vision or consolation prize CBA and Westpac as the hardest hit banks from the negative gearing changes Why the banks are rolling over on negative gearing Shifting political sentiment on housing affordability and negative gearing On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEST: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

The backlash to Labor's federal budget — and its capital gains tax changes — have not slowed down since last week's episode. If anything, it has heated up. The startup sector has been particularly vocal, and Labor ministers are feeling the heat. We discuss: Where the loudest opposition is coming from. Why Labor seems to have misjudged what the response was going to be. The consultation process, and why a scattershot approach from the startup community might not pay off. How the Coalition is going in for the attack under Angus Taylor. Why, in the background, biotech and life sciences firms are unhappy about changes to the refundable R&D tax incentive. On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEST: ⁠ https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekday newsletter, The Edition: ⁠ https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

Labor’s federal budget is one of the most significant in years regarding tax reform. The government is betting big on housing affordability by proposing an overhaul to negative gearing and capital gains tax — a decision that’s faced heavy criticism from the startup and VC sector. We discuss: The core elements of the federal budget. The surprising attention given to startups in the budget announcement. Why founders and venture capitalists are concerned about the 50% capital gains tax discount being axed across asset classes. The threat of founders relocating to lower-tax jurisdictions. How Labor’s broken promise on tax reform is a calculated gamble on young voters. The focus of the Opposition’s budget response. On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEST: ⁠ https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/⁠ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: ⁠ https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/⁠

It was a big week for banks. NAB, Westpac and ANZ posted their half-year earnings this week, projecting a rosy outlook as the RBA struck a far more sombre tone with its latest rate decision. Commonwealth Bank was also in the news after Apple’s submission to a parliamentary inquiry into digital wallets, where the tech giant singled out the bank as being ‘self-serving’. Meanwhile, at the Macquarie Australia Conference, the heads of corporate Australia’s biggest companies all had an AI anecdote. We discuss: The decade-long drama between Apple and CBA What the big four bank earnings actually tell us about the economy Michelle Bullock's unusually gloomy rate decision commentary The credit boom hiding beneath the cost-of-living conversation Why every CEO needs a "banger AI anecdote" right now Wisetech's Richard White and his excitement over his non-human workforce Qantas, Fortescue and Wesfarmers’ share how they are using AI The disconnect between investor optimism and economic reality On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEDT: ⁠https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/⁠ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: ⁠https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

With the federal budget less than two weeks away, surging inflation and a war-driven energy shock are forcing the government to rewrite its budget narrative in real time. Meanwhile, Senator Tim Ayres backs ‘balanced’ immigration, defends the National Reconstruction Fund and targets hyperscalers for more AI deals We discuss: CPI at 4.6% and what it means for the budget Why "resilience" is Labor's new budget buzzword The blame the government may be subjected to if high fuel prices continue Capital gains tax reform and the housing affordability debate Why no one in Canberra wants to talk about the skills shortage The migration debate and One Nation's anti-growth agenda The National Reconstruction Fund Tim Ayres’ comments to Capital Brief on hyperscalers and AI infrastructure On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centres of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEDT: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/newsletters/the-edition/

Canva has launched Canva AI 2.0 in the design giant's biggest transformation yet. Meanwhile, healthcare company Cochlear saw its share price crash 40% on an earnings downgrade. We discuss: Capital Brief's scoop on Canva's IPO timing Canva's AI 2.0 and the end-to-end design pivot The death of seat-based SaaS pricing Is Canva building AI or just wrapping it? Cochlear's 40% single day share price collapse Middle East disruption and weakening consumer sentiment Why healthcare stocks aren't always defensive On The Call is a weekly live conversation with the Capital Brief newsroom on the stories driving the agenda in Australia's centre of power. Host Harshdeep Kaur sits down with Capital Brief's best journalists to dissect what we're watching and why it matters, and answer questions from our subscribers live. Subscribe to join our weekly live discussion on Thursdays at 12pm AEDT: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/ Sign up to our free weekly newsletter, The Edition: https://www.capitalbrief.com/on-the-call/