The UltraSwimming Podcast

The Tsugaru Strait, which separates the Sea of Japan from the Pacific Ocean, is one of the most challenging swims in the Oceans Seven. Some years, only the very fastest swimmers can beat the currents, while in other years, mere mortals can pass through. Few achieve success in this channel without a fight. In 1990, Steven Munatones became the second person to cross the strait and the first to cross in both directions. Thirty-six years later, he still holds both speed records and has helped countless other swimmers across. In this interview, we learn what to consider if you’re thinking of attempting this challenge, how Steven planned his crossings, the support he volunteers for contemporary swimmers, and how you can contribute positively to the connections being rebuilt with local support organizations and pilots. Steven also tells us about his recent adventure circumnavigating Shodoshima Island in a series of six consecutive stage swims.

Steven Munatones has been a force in the sport of Open Water Swimming for nearly 50 years, as a competitive racer, a pioneering solo swimmer, and creator of Oceans Seven, WOWSA, the Daily News of Open Water Swimming, and Openwaterpedia. In Part 1 of our interview with Steven, we discuss the origins and throughline of his Daily News of OWS and Openwaterpedia projects: the push to include Open Water Swimming in the Olympic Games. These projects were the first attempts to systematically compile information about the emerging sport of Open Water Swimming on the internet. We also discuss the consequences of this Olympic push for solo marathon swimming, especially the longer historical races that have been abandoned by FINA / World Aquatics. Music credit: 'Wanderlust' by Scott Buckley - released under CC-BY 4.0. www.scottbuckley.com.au

Episode 8: Discerning Discomfort from Danger, with Courtney Paulk, First to Complete Double Triple Crown How can you tell if the discomfort you are feeling is something to ignore and push through, versus important information signaling danger? When is the right time to end a swim, even if you haven’t yet achieved your goal? And how do you cope with the disappointment that goes with emotionally investing in a dream that isn’t realized on the first attempt? In this episode, we discuss how Courtney Moates Paulk has cultivated the ability to discern discomfort from danger over the course of the many outstanding swims that culminated in her becoming the first person to achieve the “Double Triple Crown” and ultimately being inducted as an honor swimmer into the International Marathon Swimming Hall of Fame. We discuss attempts that didn’t go as she had hoped, rescuing a man from the English Channel, handling disappointment, what it feels like to achieve something you’ve been working toward for years, hallucinations, how listening to her body has saved her life, and the meaning that comes from setting goals, and persevering through all obstacles to bring them to fruition. Music is 'Wanderlust' by Scott Buckley - released under CC-BY 4.0. www.scottbuckley.com.au

Every ultraswimmer knows there are sharks in the ocean, but what happens when one makes a cameo during a 24+ hour swim attempt? Co-hosts Evan Morrison and Jessica Kieras do a deep dive into Jessica’s recent swim along Florida’s Gulf Coast. We discuss self-organized swims as a way of customizing one’s form of challenge, what it’s like to have a route with no fixed finish point, and the importance of transparency while fundraising for Save the Manatee Club. Jessica explains the connection between manatees’ role in the ecosystem and her approach to swimming long distances. We cover why the swim ended early, what it was like responding to an unexpected visit from a toothy friend at the stern of the boat, and what swimmers can consider in terms of safety planning for wildlife encounters. Music is 'Wanderlust' by Scott Buckley - released under CC-BY 4.0. www.scottbuckley.com.au

In 2023, Leslie Hamilton became the first woman to swim around Staten Island, and in 2025 completed an unprecedented crossing of the 26.3 mile length of Lake Norman. She likes to tackle swims that make her feel “a little crazy”, ventures off the beaten path, has nothing to prove and everything to love about this sport. Internally driven by a passionate sense of adventure and insatiably hunger for challenge, we discussed growing up within New York Open Water, how she chooses her swims (spoiler alert, they aren’t on a list), swimming sans-top around Staten Island, and the challenges of swimming long distances in warm water. 00:00 Introducing Leslie Hamilton 02:03 Growing up in NYOW 05:10 Planning the Staten Island Swim 08:16 Media Attention and the New Yorker Article 14:37 Swimming in Potentially Polluted Waters 19:30 What Makes an Adventure in Ultraswimming 22:59 You Can't Repeat the Same Swim Twice 24:52 Envisioning the Lake Norman Swim 26:51 The 24-Hour Swim Goal 29:36 Measuring Routes in the MSF Member Portal 33:44 Building a Supportive Crew 35:41 The Boat Rental Process 37:44 Night Swimming 41:04 Overheating While Swimming 48:59 Knowing When to End a Swim Leslie Hamilton on LongSwims Database https://ultraswimming.org/database/p/leslie-hamilton Music: 'Wanderlust' by Scott Buckley - released under CC-BY 4.0. www.scottbuckley.com.au Additional Reading https://www.harpercollins.com/products/endure-alex-hutchinson Additional Listening: The Central Governor Theory on Trail Runner Nation Part 1 https://trailrunnernation.com/2021/10/wrapping-our-brain-around-the-central-governor-theory-part-1/ The Central Governor Theory on Trail Runner Nation Part 2 https://trailrunnernation.com/2021/10/ep-544-wrapping-our-brain-around-the-central-governor-theory-part-2/

Episode 5: California Channel Islands with Karina Garcia Most ultraswimmers have heard of swimming from Catalina Island to the mainland, but what about the other seven islands that make up the California Channel Islands? These islands offer startlingly clear water, dramatic rocky cliffs, an iconic arch, and frequent visits from resident dolphins. Routes have been charted across the channel, around the islands, between the islands and more. What is it like to swim here? Find out as Karina Garcia shares her recent course record swim from Santa Rosa to the mainland along with Evan and Jessica’s reflections on their own swims from Anacapa, Santa Cruz and Santa Barbara Islands. If you’re wondering how you might swim any of the California Channel Islands, we discuss how the Santa Barbara Channel Swimming Association supports swimmers in safely achieving these goals. Evan and Karina draw on their experiences as former and current SBCSA board members to illustrate how the association helps swimmers organize, execute and celebrate swims involving these beautiful and remote islands. Music: 'Wanderlust' by Scott Buckley - released under CC-BY 4.0. www.scottbuckley.com.au **References** - [Santa Barbara Channel Swimming Association](https://santabarbarachannelswim.org) - [California Channel Islands solo swim results](https://ultraswimming.org/database/events/california-channel-islands) (LongSwims Database) - [Karina Garcia swim resume](https://ultraswimming.org/database/p/karina-garcia) (LongSwims Database) - [DRIVEN](https://driven.vhx.tv) - documentary film about three Channel Islands marathon swims in 2012

Episode 4: Training with Charlotte Brynn, Joe Zemaitis & Sidney Russell So what’s the best way to train for an ultraswim? In this episode we welcome [Charlotte Brynn](https://ultraswimming.org/database/p/charlotte-brynn), [Joe Zemaitis](https://ultraswimming.org/database/p/joe-zemaitis) and [Sidney Russell](https://ultraswimming.org/database/p/sidney-russell), renowned ultraswimmers who are also experienced coaches to get their take on the perennial question of how to best prepare yourself for an endurance adventure as dynamic, unpredictable and complex as an ultraswim. Our discussion covers four components of training for ultraswims: * safe and efficient technique * building endurance * acclimatizing * mental fortitude While “everyone is different” (as we have grown increasingly fond of saying), we identify some key pieces of wisdom to share with you as you consider how to design and structure your training and preparation. Music: 'Wanderlust' by [Scott Buckley](https://www.scottbuckley.com.au) \- released under CC-BY 4.0. A few references from the episode: * Charlotte Brynn, [swimwithbrynn.com](https://www.swimwithbrynn.com/) * Sidney Russell, [swimopenwaters.com](http://swimopenwaters.com) * Joe Zemaitis, [Swim Neptune](https://www.gomotionapp.com/team/assn/page/custom-page) * Marathon Swimmers Forum thread, [Training Plans for Marathon Swims 10k and Up](https://ultraswimming.org/forum/discussion/1811/training-plans-for-marathon-swims-10k-and-up) * [Training for a Marathon Swim](https://ultraswimming.org/news/2015/01/training-for-a-marathon-swim) by Evan Morrison * Science of Ultra Podcast Episodes - [Mileage Matters Most](https://www.scienceofultra.com/podcasts/136) - [Training Intensity Distribution](https://www.scienceofultra.com/podcasts/148) * Addie Bracy’s book, [Mental Training for Ultrarunning](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/mental-training-for-ultrarunning_addie-j-bracy/27038138/#edition=57821861&idiq=45515125)

In this mini-episode, Jessica and Evan dive into a major new MSF project that’s just been launched: - Our new website, ultraswimming.org which combines resources which were previously under three separate websites (marathonswimmers.org, longswims.com, and track.rs). - Our new Member Portal app, in which MSF members can submit Documented Swims for ratification, set up GPS tracking pages, vote in the MSF Awards, and get online support for any issues or questions they may have. This promises to create a more streamlined experience for MSF members, less manual labor for MSF administrators, and new opportunities for people to get involved in various aspects of the MSF project.

Some links to resources that were mentioned during the episode: MSF Documented Swims program (2014 – present), Marathon Swimmers Federation Repeatable Swim Routes, by Evan Morrison MSF documentation of Sarah Thomas’ Lake Champlain swim MSF documentation of Jessica Kieras’ Waldo Lake swim Link to episode on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1clFSao74XyWPBAaiNo7U3?si=6edf9581296a476b Link to episode on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/podcast-episode-1-karen-zemlin-lake-superior/id1845817729?i=1000731576760 Link to show on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4wovM2IebJ0mrfXN7vsmrF?si=5c1e3b71f6074ad3 Link to show on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ultraswimming-podcast/id1845817729 Podcast RSS feed: https://news.marathonswimmers.org/feed/mp3/

Recorded September 27, 2025. In this episode we discuss how Karen Zemlin envisioned, planned and completed a new 22.9 km (14.2 mile) route on Lake Superior, from Isle Royale, Michigan to Pigeon Point, Minnesota in 6 hours and 12 minutes on August 13, 2025. We talk about how this route differs from the already established east and west routes and what makes it an excellent addition to the options for ultraswims in the world’s largest lake. Karen shared with us how the unique geography of the lake contributed to an upwelling as she swam toward shore, resulting in a twenty degree temperature drop down to 46°F (8°C). We learned how she coped with the cold and how her crew supported her in completing the swim safely. Some links to resources that were mentioned during the episode: - Official documentation from Karen Zemlin’s Lake Superior swim: https://marathonswimmers.org/swims/2025/zemlin-isle-royale - Karen Zemlin's LongSwims Database profile: https://longswims.com/p/karen-zemlin - Website for the Marathon Swimmers Federation (MSF): https://marathonswimmers.org - Other MSF documented swims: https://marathonswimmers.org/swims/ - Jessica’s post on hypothermic swimmers losing consciousness on marathon swims: https://oregonlakebagging.wordpress.com/2021/01/09/swimming-to-confusion-stories-from-cold-water-swimmers/

A few links to projects mentioned in the episode: Marathon Swimmers Federation (MSF): marathonswimmers.org Long Swims Database profiles: – Jessica Kieras – Evan Morrison MSF Documented Swims: https://marathonswimmers.org/swims/ MSF News Blog: https://news.marathonswimmers.org/ Link to episode on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-0-introductions/id1845817729?i=1000731656919 Link to episode on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5sl7wwUeExB1wNE7NDm4V5 Link to show on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ultraswimming-podcast/id1845817729 Link to show on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4wovM2IebJ0mrfXN7vsmrF Podcast RSS feed: https://news.marathonswimmers.org/feed/mp3/