Five Rules for the Good Life Podcast

"If your vibe is you got there at five, but at midnight you’re still there because you just can’t get enough, we’re definitely not gonna kick you out. We’re gonna find a way to make it all work, and that’s where the sidewalk tables get created. Always leave room for excess is something we swear by." - Vanya Filipovic Vanya Filipovic, Marc-Olivier Frappier, and Jessica Noël, the co-owners of Montreal’s beloved Mon Lapin, join me from Montreal to share their Five Rules for Hosting Like a Montrealer . We talk about making room when there is none, finding the magic in a winter storm, never underestimating the wine, loving people more than perfection, and always leaving room for excess. Their rules capture the particular generosity of Montreal hospitality: the table is crowded, the bottles keep opening, and nobody is looking at the clock. I love these people, and I love Montreal—the food, the wine, the cold, the warmth, and the way a night there can become something larger than you planned. Few places have shaped the way I think about restaurants and hospitality more deeply, and talking with Vanya, Marco, and Jessica brings all of it rushing back. This episode takes me home, to a city where there is always another chair to pull up, another glass to pour, and every good meal feels like it could last forever. Five Rules for Hosting Like a Montrealer Introduction Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m back in the motherland of Montreal, chatting with the co-owners of Mon Lapin, Marc-Olivier, Vanya, and Jessica, whose new cookbook, The Mon Lapin Cookbook , will be out on Phaidon this fall and is available for pre-order anywhere you can get your books. They are here to share their five rules for hosting like a Montrealer. They talk about the importance of always pulling up a chair for one more person at the table, to see the excessive cold during the winter as a positive, and to leave your watch at home when decadence is on the menu. It is a conversation that means so much to my heart and reminds me of why I love the city and the people of Montreal so much. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. Montreal, Mon Lapin, and the People Behind It Vanya, Jessica, Marco, so good to see you. I miss all of you, and I miss one of my hometowns in Montreal. Thanks for making the time, and congratulations on the book. Thank you for having us. Yeah, thank you for having us. Montreal, as you know, is one of the all-time greatest culinary cities in the world. For anyone who’s never been, what makes it so special? Montreal has a vibe. Anyone who’s come to Montreal knows it’s a mix of bitter cold winters, French-English mashup, and beautiful people who just love to go a little overboard in eating, drinking, and being out, just consumption of culture in general. There’s the classic eponymous joie de vivre that really resonates, especially if you haven’t been before. I think it’s something that jumps out at you. We love Montreal. First & Foremost, Friends You’ve all worked in the city for years together and at separate restaurants, and have now been at Mon Lapin pretty much since the very first day. How have you inspired each other? What have you learned from each other? And how has the city inspired what you do? We all became really close friends. I mean, Vanya and I are married, but before we opened, we knew Jess for a long time, but not to a level that we do now. And same thing for Marc-Antoine and Alex. It’s been very important for us before everything, before the restaurant, before the food, the wine, to really focus on the people. It’s something that people don’t talk about enough. A happy partnership and a happy co-chefing that we have, Vanya, with Alex and the wine and Marc-Antoine. I find that everything stems from that. If we’re happy, we’re getting along. That trickles down on the whole restaurant, everybody working in it through the customers. That’s the thing that we try to maintain the most. It’s like being with somebody for a long time. Some weeks we have to do nothing and everything’s good. And some weeks we have to do better. It’s normal. We’re five people. The fact that we have this solid partnership, I really find that what makes Mon Lapin the most. The Mon Lapin Cookbook I love that. I love that these are the relationships that drive you, connect you with the customers and you with each other. In The Mon Lapin Cookbook: De Toute Beauté: From Montreal, with Love , this through line of all of you being connected with each other, the farmers, the customers, is this beautiful through line for the book. Why was this the driving narrative that you want to center everything around? I think we wanted people to really feel the energy of what we do here, whether that’s through partnerships or what small things that we do every day, even within the restaurants. Showing all those things just makes that energy shine through the pages. Sure. We didn’t want to make a cookbook cookbook, just like here are the recipes of the restaurant. Of course. Everything’s online. If you want the pétoncle recipe, it’s in the book. I’m sure if you really look online, you’ll find it somewhere. Yeah. We wanted to portray the restaurant as a whole, every little aspect from the art to the wine, to the food, to the service, to the people, to the customers. I feel like there’s a lot of restaurant cookbooks. There’s a lot of influencer cookbooks. There’s a lot of 110 recipes for sandwiches. I think we did a good job at portraying the restaurant, painting a good picture of what Mon Lapin is. I think all of you are aware of my deep love of Montreal, both as a city and then as a place going out to eat. I love the hospitality that the city represents and that I always feel when I dine with you at your restaurants, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for hosting like a Montrealer. Rule One: The More the Merrier Whenever I’ve gone to eat there, what I love is how packed every place is and how there’s always an open seat for anyone who wants to join, which makes up your rule number one. Rule number one is the more the merrier. And I’m so happy you feel it personally when you come because it really is the vibe. We have a partner, Alex. He is my wingman sommelier. He is a master of making the milk crate that’s hanging in the back store into a table of six. I love it. To walk down the street and see people eating on upside down boxes with a little tablecloth over top is a very Montreal thing. We love being able to say yes even when the answer should be no. When there isn’t room, we love making room. The energy that’s going to come from it is going to be greater than anything else. Rule Two: Embrace the Winter One of the best things about the restaurants in Montreal being so warm and so welcoming is that during the cold months, of which there are many, there’s always a place to come in, feel that love, get a good bite to eat, have something great to drink. The thing that I’ve always appreciated about those who run restaurants is they never run away from the frigid temperatures, which is a big part of your rule number two. Embrace the winter. This is half of what we are and what the city is. We’re always asked, it’s going to snow today, are you open? Yes, we are. We cook a bit differently in the winter. We love to embrace it as much as possible. In the front of the house aspect, packing people in, making it warm, having the music a bit up, serving different kinds of wines. And in the kitchen side, we serve a bit heartier dishes, some preserves, some pickles from the summer, maybe a bit more meat. We’re not going to shy from it. This is what Quebec is. The embracing of the winter makes the summer and the spring so much more enjoyable when it comes. And it makes the winter this very special moment at the restaurant. Those nights where there is an actual storm outside is the most magical nights that can happen in the restaurant. It’s the best. Everybody has rosy cheeks. Everybody’s just happy to be warm. And it’s just the magic. No one’s leaving. Nobody’s leaving, yeah. No one’s like, let me go walk into the storm again. You know, all the desserts and cheese and just see if it happens three times a year. Next time you hear snowstorm in Montreal, book a table. Rule Three: Never Underestimate the Wine I was there for my bachelor party for a blizzard of Montreal. We landed and went straight to Joe Beef. Vanya welcomed us with open arms and a couple of delicious bottles, which makes up your rule number three. Never underestimate the wine is rule number three. There’s a non-pretension, amazing appreciation and just sharing of the wine. We all have our little geeky, nerdy things that we love and we love to share and talk about, but it really is just about uncorking wine and getting everybody into it. We love to exaggerate. So we’ve completely exaggerated at Mon Lapin. We have like an extremely deep cellar. The wine list is like a Bible. Yeah, it makes us so happy to be able to show up to a table carrying a bunch of bottles and letting the magic happen. Rule Four: Love People More Than Perfection Being able to let the magic happen, trusting both yourselves and everyone working at the restaurant takes a lot of years of hard work to seem so effortless. But also understanding that sometimes not everything is gonna be exactly the way that you want it, which makes up your rule number four. Our fourth rule is love people more than perfection. If we look at it in more of a food way, produce can be perfect, imperfect, and we go with it however we feel in that moment. We’re never the type of place either that’s planning out what we’re going to be doing. There’s no lab testing of whatever dish we’re gonna be putting on the menu. Oh yeah, the lab. Yeah, the famous lab. That never happens. Always the kind of spur of the moment that translates through everything in the restaurant where nothing is so calculated. There’s wiggle room. And that makes it perfect in its own way. That’s what we were going for. It didn’t happen like that because we didn’t find a lab. That’s what we always wanted. Rule Five: Always Leave Room for Excess Given your love and your dedication to cuisine, wine, hospitality, and making room for anyone who wants to be a part of it is one of the reasons why I love dining in Montreal. Your fifth and final rule talks about embracing what could happen over any given night in any restaurant in the city in the most decadent way possible. What’s your rule number five? Always leave room for excess. What’s excess in French? Excess. Marco did this interview the other day. I laughed so hard. He said, you come to Mon Lapin and the table is not ready. And the reason is because of this rule. The next people that are coming have to wait a couple of minutes with a glass of champagne or with a cocktail or even their first appetizer standing in a corner because we are literally the opposite of those restaurants that tell you your reservation is at this time, you have to be out at this time. We literally are allergic to that process. I mean, no offense to anyone who operates that way, but we really just like to go with the flow. And if your vibe is you got there at five, but at midnight you’re still there because you just can’t get enough, we’re definitely not gonna kick you out. We’re gonna find a way to make it all work and that’s where the sidewalk tables get created. Always leave room for excess is something we swear by. Closing Congratulations on everything. The book is beautiful. I cannot wait to hold it. Thank you. I cannot wait to come back and dine with you guys. Hopefully you guys are going on tour and swinging through LA. If people want to come to the restaurants, order the book or to see what you’re up to, where can they go? VinMonLapin.com is our website. It has links to reservations. It has links to sample menus, cute photos where you can see what we do. Then it has a link to our web shop where you can buy the book in both French and English. And that’s it. Amazing. I can’t wait to see you again. I can’t wait to drink and eat with you again. You gotta come back soon. We’re gonna make it down to LA. I’ll help get the city ready to host you so you can feel like you’re in Montreal. Thank you guys again and can’t wait to see you soon. Thank you. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

"All of it is inviting participation. Participation in the magic around us.” - Evan Marks If you haven’t already, please make sure to subscribe and give Five Rules for the Good Life on Spotify & Apple Podcasts . Evan Marks Evan Marks , founder and executive director of The Ecology Center , joins me to share his Five Rules for an Abundant Life . We talk about finding gratitude in the miraculous, growing your own food, taking nourishment seriously, making things with your hands, and sharing whatever you have in surplus. Together, his rules offer a thoughtful invitation to reconnect with nature, contribute to your community, and build a richer life by becoming an active participant in it. What Evan and his community have built in San Juan Capistrano is more than a regenerative organic farm. It is a living example of what becomes possible when people come together around food, nature, and a shared sense of purpose. The Ecology Center reminds us that life is not something we are meant to simply observe or consume. We have to participate—to plant something, make something, share something, and give a little of ourselves to the world around us. The more we take part in life, the more abundant it becomes. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with Evan Marks, the founder and executive director of The Ecology Center, a truly awe-inspiring, regenerative, organic farm, cafe, and education center located in Southern California. He’s here to share his five rules for an abundant life. He talks about the importance of participating, that making something yourself leads to a much richer life, and that the more you share with others, the more the world shares with you. This conversation offers incredible insights on a different approach to living and how, by redefining your relationship with nature, you will be able to live a much richer life. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. The Ecology Center Evan, so nice to meet you. I’m so excited to be talking to you today about The Ecology Center. You’ve built such a beautiful space. Welcome to the show. Thank you, brother. Honored to be here. For those who might be unfamiliar with The Ecology Center, truly a unique place, can you explain its mission and its approach to food? Its mission is to shift culture. How we’ve done that so far is we’ve built an environment, an ecotopia. It’s a 28-acre ecosystem that inspires us to think and be in a different state, and that connects back to food, reminding people of the basic tenets of knowing where your food comes from and being deeply nourished, mind-body-spirit, in those endeavors of food or otherwise. As the founder, how did you take your life studies and adventures and turn it into something tangible? The Sum of a Life I like to say that we’re just all individually a sum of the parts that we’ve been paying attention to. I guess I was lucky to have good mentors, and I attuned my awareness to mostly traditional people, Indigenous cultures, and tropical environments. I just became fascinated with how humans have lived on this planet for centuries in harmony. That’s really been the design challenge: How do we take those pieces of civilization and culture and integrate them into the present and future tenets in a place unlikely like Orange County? The Principle of Participation There are a lot of tenets that make up what you’ve put together. One of the ones that really stuck out to me was this fundamental principle of participation. How do you weave this through the Center’s farm, garden, cafe, and all of its endeavors? We’re a village, so we’ve got a lot of different expressions. All of it is inviting participation. Participation in the magic around us. Participation in our food system. Participation in the joy of being on this beautiful planet. We do that through a whole myriad of programs, from farm dinners to music festivals, to yoga classes, to field trips, to cooking classes, to shopping at the cafe and eating in the farm stand. It’s a real wide aperture of offerings here, but all of it is an invitation to jump on board. I love that you’ve opened up your life in this space, showing people who are looking for a different type of living and being so generous with that, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules of an abundant life. Rule One: Find Gratitude in the Miraculous In setting the foundation for this approach to living, it really comes with finding this right mindset and searching for this one thing. What’s your rule number one? So much of the magic that we’re trying to inspire is the state of being. My first rule is in the context of peace and finding gratitude in the miraculous. I love that. There’s magic everywhere, and life is precious and planet Earth is sacred. The path that I’ve found is finding deep relationship and reverence to nature. When we can do that, we learn how to fill our tanks and inspire purpose, and that motivates us to be the best version of ourselves. Rule Two: Grow Your Own and Start Small As people have experienced life and lived in our current society, there has been a real separation from understanding where food or things that come from the Earth really come from. Your second rule talks about getting back to this practice and figuring out how to make something of your own. What’s your rule number two? Yeah, my rule number two is grow your own and start small. Small-scale solutions are the path forward. That means getting good at planting a container garden of herbs and tomatoes, having potted plants in your apartment, or a lemon tree out the back door of your kitchen. These are all just simple invitations to participate in adding that magic element to every meal. Moving out to California from New York, I remember the first time I picked a lime from the tree in my backyard and the absolute beauty and magic that came from putting it in my drink. Living here now for the last 10 years, I’ve really adjusted the way that I think about the food that I cook and what I put into my body, which makes up your rule number three. Rule Three: Health Is Wealth Health is wealth. Take nourishment seriously. The path to that is knowing your farmers and getting excited about making those meaningful investments in your health and the health of your ecosystem. Go to the source: the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. The farmer’s market is your number one stop. Rule Four: Do It Yourself Beyond just buying locally or growing your own food, there is a way that a lot of people consume now that is one and done. If it’s broke, just buy something new, or really be intimidated to practice this DIY lifestyle. Your rule number four talks about the importance of understanding how to make something for yourself. What’s your rule number four? Rule number four is do it yourself. Use your hands. Make something. That, in my context, could be making a worm bin, building raised beds in your backyard, or building a picnic table to celebrate the harvest with your children. The core of it is put your hands to work, get them away from any of the digital toxins, and move them back into planet Earth. Rule Five: Share the Surplus I know, as people look at the life in front of them, think about what they can make, what they can cook, what they can grow, and what money they have to spend, there is this concern about either not having enough or wasting things. Your fifth and final rule talks about planning for a life of abundance while considering what you can give to other people. What’s your rule number five? Rule number five is to share the surplus. That is really in the consciousness more than anything, which is the more you give, the more you get. We all want to line up to those age-old principles of leaving it better than we found it and giving more than we take. That can be volunteering a little bit of time to a meaningful cause. That could be sharing an extra lemon from your tree or donating some extra resources to an organization that you care about in your community. All of these are participatory ways of getting on board with the shift in the culture that is necessary for an abundant future for all of us. Closing Evan, congratulations on everything that you built. If people want to visit the farm, stop by the cafe, or check out the dinners you’re throwing, where can they go? How can they sign up to keep informed? Check us out online at theecologycenter.org. Most importantly, come on down. We’re in San Juan Capistrano. That’s between Los Angeles and San Diego. It’s a worthy field trip, and it’s a full day of fun here on the farm. That’s the best way to do it, is just to dive in. I can’t wait to swing down with my family someday soon. Evan, appreciate the time, and can’t wait to dine with you around your shared table. Thanks, brother. Appreciate the opportunity to share. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Justin Pichetrungsi , chef and owner of Anajak Thai Cuisine , joins me to share his Five (Easy) Rules for Taking Over Your Parents’ Restaurant . We talk about burning yourself out—and knowing when not to—along with the importance of arguing with your parents, listening to them, and recognizing that old things are often cooler than new ones. Justin reflects on taking over his family’s restaurant, preserving its history, and finding a way to move the business forward without losing what made it special. Together, his rules offer an honest and thoughtful guide to inheriting not only a restaurant, but all the memories, relationships, and responsibilities that come with it. The beauty of this episode is Justin’s openness about how complicated it can be to carry on a family tradition. He does not romanticize the work or pretend the transition happened without disagreements, exhaustion, or doubt. Instead, he shows how listening, arguing, preserving, and changing can all be expressions of the same love. There is something deeply moving about watching a new generation build upon what came before while making sure the people, stories, and traditions that created it are never forgotten. Introduction Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. I’m always excited when I get to spend time with today’s guest, Justin Pichetrungsi who is the chef and owner of Anajak Thai Cuisine. He’s here to share his five easy rules to taking over your parents’ restaurant. He talks about the duality of both burning yourself out and taking care of yourself, the importance of arguing with your parents, and how everything old is cooler than everything new. It is an extremely insightful conversation from someone who has successfully transitioned his family’s restaurant from one generation to another. For anyone who has found themselves in the same situation or for anyone who wants to hear the story of how it is done well, this is the episode for you. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. Justin, always a pleasure to see you. Thank you again for splashing us out the last time we were in. Welcome to Five Rules. Thank you, I like this. Taking Over the Family Restaurant In many ways, the tradition of taking over a parent’s restaurant used to be common. Why do you think that went away and why do you think it’s back? Is it back? You tell me. Oh, why do I think it went away? I actually have thought about this quite a bit. You see this a lot in Europe. You see it a lot in Asia. You see a lot of the passing down of the torch to the next generation, whether or not it’s a restaurant. Why don’t we see it here in Los Angeles so much or in America rather? And I think it’s because we have this belief that we can become independently wealthy within one generation. So it’s not necessary to build upon the intergenerational wealth and knowledge that our parents passed down. I can charge ahead in my own career and live the fullest of my life in the way that I wanna do it. The second thing is that there’s a lot of parents of immigrants, a lot of parents of non-immigrants that are gonna say, no, I want you to live life better than I live. Don’t take over my shop. Pursue your dreams, pursue your life. I was always really afraid that I was gonna lose something if my parents closed the restaurant down. I was gonna lose a part of the family. I was gonna lose my living room where I’m sitting in right now. That fear of what was gonna happen to the recipes and to the memories was really what guided me into it. A Beautiful Renovation You’re celebrating your 45th restaurant birthday and you recently did a beautiful renovation of Anna Jack. What did you wanna preserve? What did you wanna overhaul? I love the atmosphere that the old place became. It was hard to be able to explain that to my general contractor. In fact, I moved on to different contractors until I found someone who understood this idea that it wasn’t gonna be a change. We’re gonna take the little needle and poke it into the thing, extract the DNA, and then the T-Rex, right? Dave Chang said to me, it was days right before we closed for the demolition, he said. There’s only three things you need to keep. One, the wine in the middle of the room, which makes no sense. One of one. Two, the Kobe jersey, and three, your grandfather’s art. And those were the things that stayed. Sometimes having those items that represent the lineage of the restaurant are so important to have and really help tell the story. Sharing with Your Parents It’s amazing because you’ve been able to do all this and share it with your parents. What’s been the most special part about that to you? They were leaving the restaurant at the end of their career in a state that was very challenged. If you remember the feelings that you were going through in 2007, 2008, 2009, the difficulties of what restaurants were going through during the recessionary time. Tough. It hit my parents so hard. They were working seven days a week. For the most part, just the two of them, plus a few other helpers. So for me, to be able to see them at a certain sense of peace, at least peace within the business. Life is as hectic as it always is. I’m the most proud of that, knowing that they can go into their retirement without worrying about that. This was my gift to him, truly. It’s such a beautiful gift. And as more people in America start to look to continue on traditions, especially in the hospitality space, being able to see what you’ve done and using it as a map is nothing short of amazing, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five easy steps to taking over your parents’ restaurant. Easy redacted, by the way. Easy redacted. Rule One: Burn Yourself Out You can look at social media, you can look at this a few years in and feel like everything’s gelled completely. There was a plan from the beginning that the success came effortlessly, which couldn’t be farther from the truth and ties directly into your rule number one. Rule number one is burn yourself out. It’s an interesting rule to give because we’re such in a mode of career wokeness that we have to protect ourselves, right? Which I respect, I really do. But also, in the food business, in the restaurant business, it’s a 24 hour business, more or less. By the time the cleaners leave, the AM teams come in. To dive so deep into every aspect of it, of course, it’s kind of hyperbole, burn yourself out. Of course. We’re all in this kind of cycle of burning ourselves out, finding inspiration. Rule Two: Do Not Burn Yourself Out It’s this constant molting of our outer shell and getting stronger as we do it that it really motivates you and it can motivate the team and motivate the diners as well to put everything into it. Putting everything into it does inspire the people who are following you and the diners at large, especially when you’re taking something that’s beloved and making a lot of big changes. The other side of the coin from your rule number one is this, what’s your rule number two? Conversely, my rule number two is to not burn yourself out, to be quite careful of it because the dichotomy of that delirium and the creativity that comes from the delirium of being up all night. Contrast that with the creativity that you get from being relaxed, being bored. Daniel Son from Sonagi said, I’m never as creative as I am as when I’m bored. Boredom is the birthplace of great creativity. The mind is able to wander and honestly, the pandemic or the pandy, as I’m trying to call it. The pandy taught us that we could use this downtime to interact with other people, interact with other industries, interact with other chefs. Interact with yourself. Interact with ourselves and the world and nature and all of these countries that have all these longstanding multi-generational family businesses. We have to learn from that. You touch on a good point. Rule Three: Argue With Your Parents These are multi-generational businesses, which means you’re not just taking the name, you’re taking everything that comes with a restaurant. That means you’re also taking your parents, which can sometimes lead to creative tension and ties directly into your rule number three. Rule number three is that you have to argue with your parents. On the record. On the record, I’m saying it’s absolutely crucial. You need to let them know with the full honesty and the full emotion, how you feel about things moving forward in the business. Ed Catmull from Pixar said that Steve Jobs fired a guy on the board of Pixar because he never argued with him. I respect that. He was trying to say, I wanna learn from someone else’s perspective. Why do I need someone who also has my perspective? I got that covered. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My folks and I learned how to argue with one another. We learned how to understand each other through this process. We were able to get our perspectives to co-exist in the same space. At Old Anajac, you felt the tension of those things. Rule Four: Listen to Your Parents It’s just like these magnets that almost could never touch. Just like your rule number one and number two, there is a dichotomy with your rule number three in working with your parents. What’s your rule number four? If rule number three is to argue with your parents, rule number four is to listen to your parents. On the record. On the record, kids. A lot of people will say this as they get older. Your parents were right much of the time. Fair. My parents are a little bit old school in the way that they think about business. I mean, the kind of small business, immigrant control formula is very different. I understand control to be, it’s not a zero sum game. I understand the role of creativity and the role of managing creatives as a part of the business. There may be some kind of loss when you go from one style to the other. My dad was a real yeller in the kitchen and my parents are always like, you need to have control. And actually the truth is sometimes you do need to have control. There’s no business that’s authoritarian fully and also fully democratic. You have to have a push and pull. You have to have systems of checks and balances at the same time. For me, where my folks have been right most of the time, it takes me a while before I accept it. My dad was not cooking at such a scale. He cooked like a home cook and there’s such a purity in that. I try as best as I can to listen to his advice about these things. And then eventually I’m like, oh yeah, okay, well let’s try it that way. And then it works. Rule Five: Old Things Are Cooler Than New Things There is something to be said about the old school ways working, especially today when there’s so many new spots, so many new trends that it can get overwhelming and exhausting. Your fifth and final rule talks about looking backwards to go forwards. What’s your rule number five? Rule number five is that old things are cooler than new things. Yeah. I love the kind of physiognomy of space and of objects. My good friend Johnny Lee says, I don’t look forward to invent new dishes. I look backwards. Dishes that you look back 100, 200, 300 years may be just as alien and innovative as looking forward and creating new technique. When I look at the design of the kitchen, we redid every single square footage of it and we replaced every single bit of equipment except for one thing, which is the wok. And my dad’s wok station, it’s probably been there for about 35 years. And I was like, we have to keep that thing. We had someone refurbish this station. So I called up the guys in Chinatown that came over here. The guy takes a look at the serial number. He goes, I built this wok. Wow. He’s like, how is your dad doing? I remember coming here, it was a small little place and I can’t believe you guys still have this. And he said, we’ve never seen a wok this old before. And I was like, oh, I’m so glad that I kept it. And then he refurbished it. It’s pretty much brand new. It’s incredible. There’s feeling that we can connect to when something is furnished at the edges a little bit. I love it. Closing Justin, congratulations to you and your family on 45 years. Here’s to 45 more. Thank you. If people want to come by the restaurant or see the special events that you’re doing, where can they go? Come to the Instagram, at Anajak Thai Food. Open table is where you can get the reservations. Reservations do exist, but we’d love to see you for some of the events. You’re always welcome, Darin. Well, I will take you up on that offer and I cannot wait to pop back in. Thanks, buddy. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Restaurant photographer Carter Hiyama , whose book On Service, Volume One is out now, joins me to share his Five Rules for Restaurant Food Photography . We talk about why light is everything, the importance of removing distractions from the table, and why making sure your lens is clean is a must. He also explains how his background shooting skateboarding influenced the way he captures the kinetic energy of restaurant kitchens and the feeling of being in the dining room. Everyone wants to take better food photos, whether it is to show their love of food, support their local restaurant scene, or share something they are genuinely excited about. A great photograph can introduce people to a restaurant, celebrate the work happening in its kitchen, and help us feel more connected to the community around it. I love how Carter’s rules make that feel possible for everyone, regardless of the camera they use or how much experience they have. His inisghts give us the tools to take better pictures while reminding us that the real goal is to appreciate the food, the people who made it, and the experience of being there. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m joined by my good bud, Carter Hiyama, who is a restaurant photographer based out of Portland, Oregon, whose new book, On Service, Volume 1 , is out now. He’s here to share his five rules for restaurant photography. He talks about the importance of lighting, why you should remove any distractions when setting up your shot, and, most importantly, why you shouldn’t let taking photos interrupt your meal. It is a great conversation for anyone who is shooting professionally and wants to up their game, or anyone who is just snapping photos for their own social feed. So, let’s get into the rules here on HRN. Getting Started in Restaurant Photography Carter, always great to see you. It was such a pleasure to have dinner with you and Veronica Ahum up in Portland the other week. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Photography, especially food photography, has become so ubiquitous today. When did you realize that you wanted to move into doing it more professionally? I think it was probably right around 2019. I had just started to work with some restaurants, most notably Bell’s, but I was actually just doing video at the time. Shout out. That was when I got my first taste of doing restaurant work, and at the same time, I started to get really into food. So, I fell in love with the thought of being able to do it professionally. Luckily, since then, that’s what I’ve been doing. Finding a Personal Style Every photographer has their own unique style and approach. What are the stories and themes that influence your work? What are you trying to show through your work? I came from shooting skateboarding. I feel like I always tie things back to that. One of my favorite things to shoot is in the kitchen with a wide lens and just getting right up in there. It feels like I’m filming skating with a fisheye lens. Most of the time, when I’m shooting food photography or just restaurant photography in general, it’s more about trying to convey what it’s like to actually be at this restaurant. Not just showing what the food looks like, but what the surroundings look like, what the vibe of the restaurant is, and what it feels like to actually sit there and eat. Creating On Service, Volume 1 If you follow your work on Instagram or just know you personally, you’ve been to so many restaurants and have thousands of photos. How did you select the ones for your first book, On Service, Volume 1 ? First, I started with really wanting to feature Bell’s and Anajak. From there, I was trying to pick the photos that were the most influential or sentimental to me. Aside from that, it’s a combination of a lot of my favorite shots that I’ve taken over the last five years or so. What I love about your work is that it’s so personal, so accessible, and seems like anyone who wants to start taking their photos to another level can learn a lot from what you do. That is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for restaurant food photography. Rule One: Light Is Everything Many of us have run into this situation: A gorgeous plate hits the table, phones come out, and there are shadows, it’s dark, and there’s just no way you’re going to get a good shot of the food. This applies a lot of times even when you’re shooting during the day, before the restaurant opens for service, and is a big consideration for your rule number one. Rule number one is: Light is everything. It doesn’t matter what kind of camera you’re taking with. If your light is really bad, the photo is going to be bad. If your light is really good, you could be shooting on a professional camera or an iPhone, and it’ll look great. That’s really the determining factor in how well the dish looks and whether the textures and colors come out. The thing that I was thinking about with the light is that I always want it to come from one direction and kind of rake across the dish. That’s how you get a lot of texture to come out. If you think of something like bread that has a lot of little crevices, if you have light that’s coming across it, all those little crevices create tiny little shadows, which really makes the dish pop. The way you position the light is so important for pulling out all those minute details that really make your food pop. But where you’re taking the photo from also plays a big role and makes up your rule number two. Rule Two: Think About Your Angle Rule number two is: Think about your angle. A lot of it will depend on the dish that you’re shooting. For instance, a burger. Usually, you wouldn’t really want to shoot that from the top because it’ll just look like a brown circle of the bun. When you think about the dish that you’re shooting, what is the most important thing that you want to feature about it? With a burger, you really want to see the layers and the melty cheese coming off the side. Then you know you want to shoot it from a lower angle and show off that side profile, versus something like a pizza, which you would shoot from overhead. Shooting from overhead has become a pretty well-seen style because people want these natural, lived-in environments. But just because you’re shooting the entire table doesn’t mean that everything needs to stay on the table. Rule Three: Remove Distractions What’s your rule number three? Rule number three is: Remove distractions. Things like dirty napkins, empty glasses, and phones. That’s a common one—people’s phones on the tables. Maybe it’s just a pet peeve of mine, but I feel like I always try to move those out of the way. This is just for casually taking photos, not during a professional shoot. If you’re just out having dinner with friends and I’m trying to take a quick photo, usually less is more. If I’m just trying to feature one dish, I’ll try to make sure that’s the main focus. You can include other plates, cocktails, wine, or a menu—something creeping into the frame. I feel like that is always nice. Rule Four: Clean Your Lens Summertime is here, and there’s so much great food at restaurants and in the market. That also means people who are outside are usually lathered up in sunscreen. Your fourth rule talks about the importance of keeping this clean. What’s your rule number four? Rule number four is: Clean your lens. Yeah, I know it sounds basic, but it’s kind of surprising how often I’ll open up my camera and I can tell the lens is blurry or smeared. Or, if there’s some light hitting the lens, you can tell everything’s super washed out and you get a ton of glare. Basic camera tips: Wipe your lens, tap on the dish or whatever you’re trying to focus on, and make sure that’s in focus. If you’re shooting in sunlight, lower the exposure. A lot of the time, bright hot spots on the plate will be super blown out. For some reason, the phone is just okay with that. So, I always try to darken it, and that makes for a nicer picture. Rule Five: Don’t Let Taking Photos Interrupt Your Meal There are so many things to consider when you’re taking a nice photograph at a restaurant. Whether that’s a candid portrait of a chef while you’re in the kitchen or a dish that’s on your table, it can take a lot of time to get everything adjusted just the way you want. Your fifth and final rule talks about balancing the time it takes to take a photo with this consideration. What’s your rule number five? Rule number five is: Don’t let taking photos interrupt your meal. I’m guilty of it, but yes. When we had dinner, it was totally fine. We just took our phones out really quickly and snapped a couple of pictures. Yeah. I feel like that’s the perfect balance. Sometimes I’ll see people taking their phones out every time a dish hits the table, or they start recording videos and everyone has to stop what they’re doing to pause for this content moment. If that’s what you’re there to do and you’re being paid to be there and do that, that’s totally fine. I feel like, in a regular, casual dinner setting, it can be kind of disruptive. Yeah. So, I usually just try to get my couple of pictures, and that’s it. Closing Carter, congratulations on the book. If anyone wants to order one of the few remaining copies, because it’s almost sold out, or follow along with the work that you’re shooting on a day-to-day basis, where can they go? I have them for sale on my website at carterhiyama.com, and they’re also being sold at select stores across the U.S. Support your local independent bookshop. Shout out to Now Serving. I know that they have a few copies left here in L.A. I can’t wait to see you again, share another meal, and take some photos together when we’re in the same city. Definitely. Thanks for having me. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Adam Weissblatt , co-founder of Last Word Hospitality and author of For the Love of Restaurant s , joins me to share his Five Rules for Opening a Neighborhood Restaurant . We talk about trusting your gut, treating your landlord like a true business partner, and making sure you can deliver on what you promise. After opening seven restaurants of his own, Adam offers an honest and practical look at what it takes to turn the dream of a restaurant into a place that can become part of its community. What I find most inspiring about Adam is his willingness to openly share knowledge that took him years—and plenty of hard lessons—to earn. For more people to succeed in this industry, we need more people willing to follow his example and let go of the gatekeeping that has kept so much valuable information out of reach. Sharing what you know does not diminish your own accomplishments; it gives someone else a better chance to build something meaningful of their own Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m chatting with Adam Weissblatt, the co-founder of Last Word Hospitality and the author of For the Love of Restaurants, An Insider’s Guide from Daydreams to Opening Night, which comes out tomorrow on August 11th. He’s here to share his five rules for opening a neighborhood restaurant. He talks about the importance of trusting your gut, how by building the right team sets you up for the right success, and that by being honest with yourself and those you’re working with allows for a long existence in any community. It’s a great conversation for anyone who’s ever dreamed of opening up their own space from someone who has walked the walk and opened up seven of his own spaces. The Neighborhood Restaurant So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. Adam, always great to see your smiling face. Thank you for taking a break from your restaurants and hospitality group and congrats on the book, The Love of Restaurants, which comes out tomorrow. Yes, sir. Tomorrow. It used to be that a neighborhood restaurant was a bit of a backhanded compliment. Rise of the Neighborhood Restaurant How has that perception and term shifted over the last few years? As the economy struggles, people are looking for familiarity and they’re looking for comfort. A restaurant is the ultimate form of being able to go out, have a big night out, but then maybe not spend as much, including just on the simple realities of getting to and from. What it costs to get in an Uber or gas or everything like that. It all factors into how people make decisions about where they’re going to eat. Now, maybe more than ever, people are looking for that neighborhood comforting place and want a place they can call their own. That’s really good. The Search Your group, Last Word Hospitality, has specialized in neighborhood restaurants and has seven different spots in your portfolio. What is the through line that ties them all together and makes them a part of their individual communities? We’re always just looking for beautiful spaces that represent a cool aesthetic of that neighborhood. When you take an old building that’s been there since the 20s or 30s and it’s been uncared for and you put love into it, that already starts to show people that you really genuinely have pride in what you’re doing and that matters. For us, we partner with people on each one of these projects. I love that. Every time you walk into the restaurant and you ask, who is the owner, the chef and the GM are going to be part of that team of owners. You’re going to have that constant connection through the people in the space to ownership. I think that really matters and draws a connection between community. Being able to be a authentic and literal part of the community from the space to the people in it has been something that’s defined your career and approach to building these different spaces. For the Love of Restaurants The book, The Love of Restaurants, I remember you telling me about it four or five years ago at a one-on-one event. Why was now the right moment to share it with the world? Three years ago, when I really started to take it seriously, I lost two of my best friends in the same year. One to cancer, one to unnatural causes, unfortunately. So sorry. Thank you. It motivated me to do something really difficult and to do it in their honor. I did always feel like there was a gap in the book market of just a book that you could pick up if you were waiting tables or cooking or managing or being a chef and find a path that shows you what it means to become an owner of a restaurant. You’re going to touch in real estate and you’re going to touch in permitting and you’re going to touch the city and all these things that you won’t necessarily learn in your day-to-day managing a restaurant even as a general manager. That’s the information I wanted to really share and I wanted to do it in a way that restaurant people could read and find enjoyable. Rule One: Trust Your Gut I’m so happy that the era of gatekeeping is done and I’m seeing it more and more across different creative industries, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for opening a neighborhood restaurant. Anyone’s ever walked into a hot restaurant on a Friday night, you immediately feel the energy the second you walk through the door. What’s harder than that is walking into that same space months, if not years, before a big night can happen, but it ties directly into your rule number one. Rule number one is you do have to have this feeling in your gut. There has to be a natural attraction to what it is you’re going to do. Considering you’re committing years of your life to this, and I always think work in years and live in the present, try to enjoy every moment, but know that if you’re going to do big things, it’s going to take amounts of time and so be patient with yourself. The first feeling is do you truly love it? When you look at that space, do you envision a restaurant there and can you play in your mind how people are going to interact with it? You need to be able to fully visualize whatever restaurant in your head is there in that physical space and how people will truly react to it and be as honest with yourself as one can be when talking about your own emotions. That honesty and having that trust with your own emotions is key because at some point you are the one who knows what you’re really going to like, but to build any business in anything, especially a restaurant, you do need to have good partnerships and having a good relationship with this person is your rule number two. Landlord is your first business partner in these deals a lot of the time. Rule Two: Your Landlord Is Your First Business Partner Big time. In order to raise money, Holly, my partner since 2014, we had to put in money at least to get the lease assigned. Then we could prove to people that we were serious and that we could then go out and raise capital against it. First person to convince that you’re serious is a landlord. In our experience, you really want to like that person as much as you can. That is a real relationship that will be ongoing. It will be a very serious relationship. If you’re going through things like the fires or COVID or all the stuff we’ve done for years, that’s the person you’re going to be turning to and working with, but no guests can show up. The only person you can really try to figure shit out with is your landlord. Rule Three: Choose the Right Partners You being on the front lines with your landlord and being able to take on the outwardly problems for your team is really important, but to run the restaurant day to day, you got to look inside the four walls and put together these types of people, which are rule number three. Partners, I don’t think I would ever do a restaurant without knowing that there was going to be a number of extra people there to partner with me and to help carry that person. People say it’s like a marathon, but marathons have a start and finish and restaurants don’t end, especially if you’re doing well. I won’t even consider a project unless we can really visualize who those people are going to be. It’s at least a chef and at least a general manager and not only them running that place and being part of that community, but also working with each other. A lot of our partners who’ve now developed into great friends didn’t necessarily know each other before. Some of the magic of what I think we’ve been able to do over the years is find like-minded people who often have really different backgrounds, but you just think will be great together. And if it turns out to be true, Mike and Melissa from Barra Santos didn’t know each other. That’s crazy. Their friendship is so real and genuine. It’s the reason why that restaurant feels the way it does. You make friends fast when you’re working in the trenches to say. When you’re cramming in 10, 12, 14 hour days, those friendships and those relationships really develop. Even when you have great relationships, even if you have a good landlord, even if you have a space you love, you still need runway. And without this resource, that’s not going to happen. Rule Four: You Need Enough Money What’s your rule number four? You need enough money. The M word. Restaurants are very expensive. Every locale is different. And so I was very careful in the book to never name dollar amounts. Doing a restaurant in all different municipalities across the country is going to cost very different amounts. But that doesn’t mean that that amount isn’t a lot of money in each one of those municipalities. I don’t think they’re ever really affordable. It’s going to be expensive to whomever’s doing it in whatever community they’re doing it from. There is a reality to this where some restaurants don’t open. They dig in and they’re not able to get to the opening day. And that is maybe the greatest tragedy I’ve witnessed in my many years doing this. A hundred percent. They’ve got a big dream and they put in real money, especially their own money, and they don’t get a chance to show anything. You need enough capital to do what it is that you want to do. And you want to have a plan of how you’re going to get that money back out. A lot of the times people can have a dream. People want to be something that maybe they’re not. I would always give advice to chefs who wanted to get in TV. You wouldn’t open up a restaurant that isn’t an extension of who you are. So why would you do that for a TV show? Your fifth and final rule follows this advice when you’re looking at opening up a restaurant and creating the space that you want. Rule Five: Deliver What You Promise What’s your rule number five? You have to be able to deliver what you promise. Yeah. You need to be able to execute what it is you’re going to tell people you’re going to execute. If you put up a sign on your front door that says shitty pizza, cheap beer in the game, you’ll do great. 99 cent slices crushes in New York. Yeah. Slices are honest and honesty sells. Deliver value and deliver what you were saying you will is I think very refreshing for people. And restaurants are expensive. So there’s no getting around that either, which means being honest with yourself about who you are, what your team is, what the physical capacity is of your actual kitchen and your bar, and how many people you’re going to be serving realistically. And once you can tell that many people with real certainty, I know I can do this, you’ll do well. Because I think that same place with the sign that says shitty pizza and cheap beer, if it says great pizza and craft beer, and then you go in and it’s shitty beer and shitty pizza, that will fail. Closing You can just tell people what it is you’re about and then really nail it. I do think that’s one of the absolute keys. Thank you for sharing the keys. It’s great for anyone who’s always wanted to just understand the machinations of opening a restaurant. And for people who actually want to do it themselves, if those types of people want to get the book, or people are just interested in peeking behind the curtain, where can they see what you’re up to with your restaurants? Books should be available everywhere. Come by any of the last restaurants, we’ll have books there too. Go independent, shop at Now Serving, shop at your local bookstore, shop for books, read books. That’s my best message. Learn stuff that doesn’t have an intermediary and that’s not on the internet. If there’s one thing I’ve been doing more of this summer, it’s been reading books. Adam, congratulations. I can’t wait to swing in and have a bite with you. Thanks, Darin. Appreciate you, man. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Mackenzie Hoffman , co-owner and operator of Stir Crazy , joins me to share her Five Rules for Creating a Restaurant that Feels Timeless . We talk about welcoming solo diners, staying earnest, and maintaining your principles without compromise. She explains why restaurants should avoid chasing trends, remain grounded in their values, and become genuine friends to the people and businesses around them. It is a conversation about creating a sense of place—one that feels deeply connected to its neighborhood while offering guests an escape from the world outside. Together, her rules offer a thoughtful blueprint for building a restaurant that does more than serve great food—it creates a feeling people want to return to again and again. After nearly twenty-five years of covering and working with restaurants, I have seen that the places that last—both by keeping their doors open and finding a permanent place in people’s hearts—are the ones that embrace their communities. They know their neighbors, welcome regulars and first-timers with the same generosity, and become part of the rhythm of local life. A truly timeless restaurant does not impose itself on a neighborhood or chase whatever is popular in the moment. It listens, contributes, and slowly becomes a place people cannot imagine the neighborhood without. Photo by Shelby Moore INTRODUCTION Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with Mackenzie Hoffman, co-owner and operator of Stir Crazy and a fixture in the LA food scene. She is here to share her five rules for creating a restaurant that feels timeless. She talks about the importance of tailoring each guest’s experience, especially when it comes to solo diners, the tips and tricks of staying earnest, and how to maintain your principles without compromise. It’s a great conversation for anyone who’s looking to open a place that can embed itself into the community or for anyone who’s been open for a few years and is looking to become an even bigger part of the neighborhood. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. BACKGROUND Mackenzie, always a pleasure to see you. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy day at Stir Crazy to sit down for the show. Incredibly honored to be here, Darin. Thank you so much for having me. My absolute pleasure. You literally went to school for food studies and nutrition, something that is rare in the restaurant world. What unique perspective do you feel it gave you in regards to hospitality? BY THE BOOKS The best way to describe the program was comprehensive. There was a culinary portion to it, there was a microbiology portion to it, food in the arts, food writing, a little business piece, accounting and whatnot. So it really gave me a comprehensive view of food, food systems, restaurants. And then being in New York City was incredible because just the access to being able to study something during the day and then go to my job or go out to eat, grab lunch somewhere. It was awesome. You were in New York at an incredible inflection point in the restaurant scene and you got to work with some of the great names of that time, Four Horsemen, Union Square Hospitality, Major Food Group. What did you learn from working in New York and Brooklyn restaurants that you still practice today? IN NEW YORK I get goosebumps thinking about it because 10, 15 years ago, we were trying to get this craft to catch on. Now, it’s just porn. People can’t get enough of it. Within the past 15 years of seeing restaurants grow and evolve, not just in our industry, but how they affect the world at large. It’s a global industry. The diaspora of all these other ideas and flavors, I feel like we won despite all the adversity, not just happening in localized from city to city and city, but also in the industry at large. I do think that this is a long game and I think that we’re going to win. You’ve been in the industry through incredible adversity like COVID, which affected the restaurant that you moved out to LA for, Onda, but you managed to stay in the game and eventually open up Stir Crazy. How did you take everything that you’d learned and put it into your own place? MAKING IT MY OWN I was fortunate enough to be part of restaurants in multiple different cities and seeing some really, really incredible people, professionals with their own long histories. It was almost like an anthropological view of a lot of different ways to do stuff, not just the how to do it and the what to do, but also why it was being done. I really got to see all the options in front of me and then take a look at my internal world and what my values were to shape that into a very personal perspective. RULE ONE: WELCOME SOLO GUESTS I love how you’ve taken your experiences, your studies, what you’ve learned from other people and put it into this unique restaurant, especially for LA, which is why I’m so excited for you to be sharing your five rules for creating a restaurant that feels timeless. For all the restaurants that I love, you can easily feel that hospitality is at the center of what they do. It’s not just about the big groups that come there for the special moments like birthdays and anniversaries. It’s for the people who just want to be out in the world, have a dinner, enjoy themselves, and this makes up your rule number one. My rule number one is welcome solo guests. Yes. To me, it’s a no-brainer and it also speaks about how creating a restaurant that feels timeless honors your neighborhood too. I always try to find ways to welcome and treasure guest experiences that are varied. Looking for those solo guests, such a great flag when they bring a book and feel comfortable to just linger and read. Number one. Yeah. The varied turn times also include bookending other experiences, dropping in for a pre-dinner bottle of wine before you have omakase or even finishing your night with us with a nightcap or even dessert after you went somewhere else. Not every experience that we offer is replicatable. Everyone is unique. The fact that guests can feel comfortable walking in is incredible. We have a 33% return guest rate. That’s amazing. Which in LA is mind-boggling. Month after month after month, I’m like, did I refresh the page? The number is the same. RULE TWO: STAY EARNEST When you are that welcoming to guests, when people keep returning, a lot of it radiates from staying sincere, having this open arms policy, and really catering to what people want, which now that you’ve been over three years is not the easiest thing to do. But your rule number two talks about the importance of this in creating a restaurant that feels timeless. Number two, stay earnest. So hard. There’s a couple of different tongs in my fork of earnesty. Sure. It’s a good reminder that to both your guests and yourself and your staff that food, wine, service, hospitality, they’re crafts. You’re allowed to be a nerd. You’re allowed to make this your career. You’re allowed to invest in yourself. That pride and that joy and that confidence is going to be contagious. And then ultimately, if you continue that with the way that you teach and the way that you serve and the way that you host and have gratitude while doing it, it’s a really, really great feedback loop. That is the importance of earnesty. RULE THREE: AVOID TRENDS. KEEP THINGS ANALOG. Being earnest from the start and knowing who you are allows you to put your best foot forward when And when Stir Crazy opened, I can say it. It was one of the most talked about and hottest restaurants for all of the right reasons. By not chasing this, it has allowed you to stay consistently well-respected and busy as your doors have been opened. What’s your rule number three? Rule number three is avoid trends. Keep things analog. This is my rule for the non-capitalist capitalist in me. You have to have a North Star. The big word here is intention. Yes, we were hot and cool and vibey when we opened, but I would say that the way that I approach growth, it’s a slow burn. It’s like embers in the fire. It’s really making sure that you’re stoking your heat and making sure that you’re giving yourself grace to fail sometimes and make wrong decisions and then always learn from them. Restaurants should always be a feeling. They should not be any bigger than one person inside them. You’re always going to harness something timeless if you’re reaching towards a feeling. Then the keeping things analog, this is just to not so much think forward in time, but also backwards in time. At Stir Crazy, we don’t have a lot of screens. We don’t have a phone. We don’t have a website. It’s almost as if time collapses on itself. Yes, we’ve been around for three years, but I hope that someone can enter our doors like a threshold to a portal and be transported. The transportative nature of Stir Crazy is what I find to feel timeless as well. RULE FOUR: BEFRIEND YOUR NEIGHBORS This ability to feel timeless, welcoming the community really is a key to keeping your doors open. By ingratiating yourself to these people, it’ll allow you to do so for years to come. What’s your rule number four? Rule number four, befriend your neighbors. So important. Restaurants need to understand that they have a sense of place. We have terroir. We don’t have to impose ourselves on the neighborhood and scream louder. We can just be more intentional in the things that we say and the things that we do. Don’t operate on an island. Get to know the people on either sides of you, your businesses. They probably have something to teach you, whether it be something about that crack in the sidewalk, something about that crosswalk. A timeless restaurant is not an imposition on the neighborhood. It is a seamless character that befriends a whole cast of people. RULE FIVE: MAINTAIN YOUR PRINCIPLES WITHOUT COMPROMISE Being able to truly become a part of the neighborhood means that you have to be there for a good length of time and the business is going to go up and down. Opportunities are going to be presented to you that might seem good in the moment, but you know in the long run won’t make the most sense. Your fifth and final rule talks about sticking to this to allow you to keep running the type of restaurant that you want to have out in the world. What’s your rule number five? My rule number five is maintain your principles without compromise. The other big I word that goes along with intention is integrity. You don’t always just have to have integrity to others. You should also have integrity to yourself. Knowing to not bite off more than you can chew. Knowing that no is probably the hardest thing to say, but it’s such an important lesson to learn how and why and when to say no. Your moral compass or your north star in your business. Learning when, how, and most importantly why you do things and why you execute the way that you do, why you host the way that you do. That allows you to execute seamlessly with confidence. CLOSING Well, you can feel that confidence every time you walk through the doors at Stir Crazy. Mackenzie, congratulations on everything. If people want to swing by because they cannot make a reservation through a phone call, some people chagrin, where can they go? How can they see what you guys are up to? Come visit us at 6903 Melrose Avenue on the corner of Orange, smack dab in the middle of Los Angeles. We also take reservations by email and currently by resi. I’m so excited for everything that you’ve built and I can’t wait to swing back in for a glass of wine and some small fishes. Thank you. I’m honored to keep doing it. I hope to see you soon. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Greg's Five Rules for Getting Your Life Back on Track Greg Baxtrom is the chef and owner of 5 Acres in Rockefeller Center and the author of Nothing Matters but Delicious: A Radically Honest Cookbook about food, alcoholism, recovery, and rebuilding a life. In this deeply personal conversation, Greg shares his Five Rules for Getting Your Life Back on Track. Together, we talk about the long road to sobriety, the daily work of becoming reliable again, and how cooking helped him begin accumulating the days that eventually became a new life. These conversations are important because no one should have to struggle alone. Hearing Greg speak so openly about his lowest moments, the people who helped him, and the work he continues to do offers more than hope—it reveals a path forward. Recovery does not happen all at once, and it does not always move in a straight line. Sometimes it begins with telling the truth, asking for help, or simply doing the one thing you said you would do that day. Wherever you are in that process, be patient and kind to yourself. You are not alone, and change is possible. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m chatting with Greg Baxtrom, the chef and owner at Five Acres in Rockefeller Center, and the author of Nothing Matters but Delicious, a radically honest cookbook, out now on 10 Speed Press. He’s here to share his five rules for getting your life back on track. He talks about the importance of telling the truth, the necessity of building a routine you can actually keep, and that by being patient and kind to yourself is the key to real change. This conversation, along with his cookbook, are deep explorations of Greg’s struggle with alcoholism, his journey through recovery, and how he’s put his life back together. It is a great conversation for anyone who is going through similar struggles or for anyone looking for a insight to understand those who are. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. Greg, so good to see you. Opening Congratulations on the book and Five Acres. Thanks for making time for the show. Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I love the book and it starts off with a very powerful introduction where you talk about living your life in two unequal parts. How much has the concept of balance played a part in your life? I mean, there was none until recently. Sure. Even now, I’m not that great at it. I mean, I’m pretty great at being sober. I don’t have near misses and stuff, but I’m probably on day 55 straight of no days off. Right. Still a work in progress. I take things like going to bed at a specific time. I try to be in bed by 10 o’clock every day. It’s pretty good. I try to wake up and have a coffee. I still have some non-negotiables, but there are ones that get tossed out the window still. I’ll go through a phase of like, now I’m vegan and I’m starting off with a five-day fast and I’m signing up for my trainer. Yeah. So that lasts like four days. And right now I haven’t really been going to the gym because I’ve been coming here every day to just kind of make this new thing land well and represent what we try to do. Yeah. You know, I prioritize my family more. I also just go to Chicago more. I wouldn’t even consider going for a holiday in the past. And now I try to go home for birthdays. I prioritize that a little bit more. A cookbook like yours, nothing matters but delicious, usually comes out as a celebratory, usually four or five-year mark of a restaurant, which was Olmstead. You closed the restaurant last year. The book just came out and a lot of what delayed the book was life happening around it. How do you feel about its release now? It was hard for me to even write the book in the first place. I eventually became acquainted and friendly with Joshua David Stein. And I had other avenues to go down. There were big publishers that wanted a great big Olmstead book. They would make it as beautiful as I wanted and as cheffy as I wanted. Yeah. I was basically told it wouldn’t sell but it would look pretty. Sure. As vain and egotistical as I am to have a nice pretty book, I really didn’t want to do something that from the get-go wouldn’t be even attempt to be successful. I’m dyslexic and I have ADHD. It took Josh to literally lay on my couch while I just talked and cooked and would just type as I was doing stuff. Yeah. I wanted it to be accessible. Yes, there’s some Olmstead stuff in there. A lot of the recipes are when I went to rehab the second time because the first time it didn’t really take. There was no getting another shot. I woke up at eight. I walked my dog, got my juice. Right. I made my coffee and I went to the farmer’s market as often as I could to make just enough food for myself that night. I was just accumulating days. So a lot of the recipes in the book are just what I cooked to get to 90 days. Many people would not open a cookbook so honestly with tales of their own addictions and their lows battling alcoholism, let alone shape the recipes and stories within these pages. Why did you want this to be a fundamental of the book which you call a radically honest cookbook? I don’t want bipolar sober chef on my tombstone. I don’t want to be remembered for that. I dedicated 20-25 years to doing this thing. I still love it, but I unraveled. I wanted to be on solid ground again through instructions from my doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists. I had been documenting my time in rehab the first time and then the second time. I have a first-hand 20-30 page document of basically what it was like getting sober that I’ve never really done anything with and I just took a chunk of it out and I decided to put that into the book. I wanted to move on. I’m not afraid of doing the work of getting sober, becoming reliable again. I’m all for that. I just want to set the tone again. Hopefully, I can get back to, okay, Greg’s back to being reliable and talented. The fact that you are willing to put in the work, the fact that you have the opportunity to do so, the fact that you’ve been so honest about it makes me so excited for you to share your five rules for getting your life back on track. Rule One: Tell the Truth In the introduction, you lean into what it was like to go home into Chicago, to having to start lying about what you were doing with your life and how you’re spending your time. Yeah. Your first rule talks about the importance of moving in the other direction. What’s your rule number one? You gotta just tell the truth. At that point, I knew I was a mess and I knew I was a drunk and I was miserable and lonely and sad and suicidal, but no one really knew that. People just saw that I was drinking more. Yeah. I would hide in the employee bathroom and drink. I felt like I was still involved in there and around the people that I liked and admired and so when I went to Chicago, I think my parents just sort of and my family assumed I was stressed and drinking. Eventually, I got a DUI and my father came and picked me up. I jumped out of the moving car. Wow. I’m named after my dad’s brother who got hit by a drunk driver. Yeah. I was so uncomfortable and miserable. Sure. The next day, my sister finds me and she’s like, look, I don’t think this is just run-of-the-mill hereditary alcoholism. I think there’s something else there. I think you should go to the hospital, not just straight to rehab again. That was the first time that I felt hope. I was miserable. I didn’t want to be this way. I knew there was a problem from the get-go and I didn’t want it. That doctor and a team of people were like, you’re on all the wrong medication. Basically, we believe you’re bipolar and we need to put you on all new medication. Yeah. From there, once I was on all the new medication, then I was transferred to a different type of rehab. The property was so big, they didn’t even care if you left to go camping for a couple of days because you weren’t going to go anywhere. There was just thousands of acres. I got to be out in nature while accumulating those first couple of days being sober. With that opening up, there was a woman in my life who really took care of me, who happened to be a nurse. Then, there was also my sister who’s a doctor. Without them, for sure, I would not be here right now. Rule Two: Accept That You Don’t Have All the Answers Going through all of that, having to look inwards sometimes can be a very hard awakening, but it does lead you to accept that you don’t have this, which is your rule number two. My rule number two is to accept that you don’t have all the answers. I am a reliable person when I’m not a drunk. My intentions are good. In the very beginning, you’re like, you just need to be 30 days sober, and then you’ll be able to recalibrate and go back to a beer a day. Eventually, you break down. You go, okay, it’s three months, and then it’s six months, and then it’s a year. It’s a long time before you go, okay, fine. I get it. I won’t be able to drink again. I went to Smart Recovery, Wellbriety, NA, AA. I just wanted to be fixed, and I was willing to do it. Rule Three: Get Professional Help The more you can be honest and open up, some people, how they’re communicating to you is going to click. Once you’ve accepted that you don’t have all the answers and you start listening to other people in your life and build a support system, that’s really important on a personal level. At the end of the day, your rule number three talks about looking to these other types of people for guidance. What’s your third rule? Getting professional help. The people in my life tried their best. Everybody was for me going to AA meetings, for me getting a psychiatrist, but the sadness in me was not going away, though. I didn’t want to exist anymore. It required consistent medical observation. Even when you’re opening up about having a drinking problem or being a little depressed, I don’t want my parents to know that. Sure. But once there was a medical team, many doctors and psychiatrists and therapy, those feelings go away. What sucks is that even after being sober for three years and medicated, I don’t really keep track of that. I think it’s going on six years now. Not that long ago, I had to go back to the hospital for having some pretty dark thoughts, and I was in the hospital for two weeks. I’m sorry. Rule Four: Build a Routine There’s a little bit of rolling with the punches even when you get the professional help. A lot of the times when you’re staring down big life changes, knowing that everything is going to be different, it can be overwhelming, but your rule number four talks about how gradual steps make the biggest changes. What’s your fourth rule? Building a routine. One is just waking up around the same time, having good hygiene, brushing your teeth, taking a shower, making a coffee. For me, I would go to the farmer’s market or go to the grocery store, and I would buy enough just for the day so that way I had something to do the next day. I signed back up for guitar lessons. I could still only play like two songs. Really tried to invest in myself. After I had accumulated 90 days of sobriety, then it was about building a routine so that way the people in my life saw that I wasn’t fragile because everybody is thinking you’re very fragile. Sure. Half the people in my life are like, you’re going to need to change careers. How will you go into a restaurant that you own or that you work at that has liquor on a shelf? New approaches, new routines. You’re just talking to the wrong person if you’re saying just change professions. It is a non-negotiable. I remember I did a commercial with Gordon Ramsay, and it was nine o’clock in the morning, and I was drinking cooking brandy in the basement to take the edge off. The routine part of it at the restaurant was that if I was in the basement, in that area where the brandy was, that people didn’t need to start looking at the cameras or send somebody over there. Of course. I just needed to be present. Maybe I didn’t need to do 14-hour days right away, just being reliable for four hours or five hours. I do have the benefit of I own the restaurant. Plus, we were in COVID, so we were selling barbecue in the backyard while running a soup kitchen on one side, while running a high-end bakery on the other side, while doing a pop-up for black chefs across the street. When I was a drunk, I liked duck, and I would butcher the duck. I started to become the guy where I would tell the team, I got the duck today, and I would take it out. Then I would just vanish, or I’d be in the bathroom, and then they would have to butcher it, or they would go put it away or something. The routine was just if I said I was going to do something, I did it. Even if it was one thing, if it was mop the floor or clean up the garden or something, if I said I was going to do something, I had to do it. You’ve been so honest about your journey, the time it’s taken, 30 days, 90 days, years. Rule Five: Be Patient With Yourself Your fifth and final rule really does talk about being kind to yourself and allowing for this. What’s your rule number five? You got to be patient with yourself, with how people act around you. Fortunately, people gave me a lot of grace. Beautiful. My staff didn’t really leave. I had one guy that worked for me for six years. He had to help carry me out of the office and sneak me out the back door. He didn’t move on until everything was set, and I was good. Wow. I owe that guy everything, and he just helped consult with some drinks we were doing here. There are definitely some bridges burned, and I’ve tried to make attempts at rectifying the ones that I’m aware about, or the ones I have access to. Some people are there for it, and some people could care less. Yeah. I remember I was over a year sober, and I was on Channel 9 News for the Super Bowl. I posted that I was on it. You know, the first comment is like, oh, this guy’s still slurring his words. He must still be a drunk. Huh. That sucked. I can only imagine. Maybe that guy moved to New York to work for me, and when I got there, I was a drunk. He didn’t like his experience. I was a disappointment. Right. What’s important to me is that I’m dependable and reliable. I try to be a nice guy. I’m not always. In my position, I would rather be dependable for everybody that they can rely on me, and that’s what I work on. Greg, deeply appreciate you sharing so much about your life. The book, Nothing Matters But Delicious, is out now. Closing If people want to get it, if people want to check out Five Acres, if people want to see what you have going on, where can they go? If you come to Five Acres, and you buy the book, it comes with a little spice jar, so that’s fancy. You can order it through Kitchen Arts and Letters or Amazon or a bunch of publishers. I know Barnes and Nobles is carrying it. It’s on our website. There’s links there if that helps. Thanks so much for taking the time. Thanks so much for sharing so much. I can’t wait to swing back into New York and pop up to Rockefeller Center. Let me know. Give me a heads up. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Ji Hye's Five Rules for How to Make a Delicious Korean Meal at Home For many home cooks, Korean food is something they love to eat but feel intimidated to make. In this episode, Ji Hye Kim , the chef, owner, and managing partner of Miss Kim and Little Kim in Ann Arbor, shares her Five Rules How to Make a Delicious Korean Meal at Home . She talks about making the cooking feel approachable without stripping away what makes it special. From building a thoughtful pantry to understanding the role of banchan, the stories behind iconic dishes, and ultimately finding the confidence to make them your own, Ji Hye offers a roadmap that is as practical as it is inspiring. Whether you’re making your first batch of tteokbokki or simply looking to bring new flavors into your kitchen, these are lessons that will stay with you long after dinner is over. I love this episode because it reminds me that learning something new almost always begins with a little uncertainty. Picking up an unfamiliar cuisine asks you to invest your time, your curiosity, and yes, a little money as you stock a new pantry or hunt down ingredients you’ve never used before. But the return on that investment lasts a lifetime. Once you understand the flavors, the techniques, and the stories behind a cuisine, they become part of the way you cook, the way you think, and the way you see the world. Every new dish becomes another connection to another culture, and every meal you make afterward is a little richer because you were willing to take that first step. Five Rules for the Good Life with Ji Hye Kim How to Make a Delicious Korean Meal at Home Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m in Ann Arbor, Michigan, chatting with Ji Hye Kim, who is the chef, owner, and managing partner of Miss Kim and Little Kim. She’s here to share her five rules for how to make a delicious Korean meal at home. She talks about the importance of putting together an essential Korean ingredient pantry, that understanding the essence of a dish elevates what you want to make, and with enough practice, you can make any Korean dish your own. It is a great conversation for anyone who’s wanted to cook more Korean food at home or has been enticed to introduce new flavors to their cooking at large. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. Growing Up in Seoul Ji Hye, so nice to meet you all the way from Ann Arbor. I appreciate you taking the time to chat with me for the show. I am so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. You were born and raised in Seoul. What are some of the dishes from your childhood that still ground you today? Oh my god, so many because my mom was the best cook in the family and that reputation has not changed even now. Even with your own restaurant? No, absolutely not. I cannot take the title from her. She is still the absolutely the best and she cooked everything from scratch. But what I remember is tteokbokki. It’s the quintessential Korean street food. My mom forbade me from eating it because she called it a delinquent food which made me want it more. Of course. I remember sneaking out milk boxes and trading it with the street vendor and eating it behind my mom’s back and then coming home for a full Korean meal. That really stayed with me because it was the first independent decision I made about the food. I now have three or four different kinds of tteokbokki on rotation at my restaurant at Miss Kim at any given moment. Those original food memories and adventures always stick with you. Yeah. You wound up leaving Seoul and eventually landing in Ann Arbor, getting into the food world through Zingerman’s. Correct. What surprised you the most about the culinary offerings of the Midwest? The amazing array of vegetables. It’s not necessarily the same vegetables that I would have used if I lived in There are enough similarities and it actually pushes you to be more creative. Taking what my mother and my ancestors gave me and adapt that with my neighbor farmer’s beets or Jerusalem artichoke or lots of corn. And that’s actually been really fun marrying that together. You opened up your first restaurant Miss Kim in 2016 in partnership with Zingerman’s. How did you want to bring your two worlds together from what you grew up eating with in Seoul and what you discovered in the farms of the Midwest? I had an office job after graduating. I just found it incredibly not inspiring. Sure. I took a huge pay cut on nothing but a gut feeling. I started working for Zingerman’s and it’s known for Jewish Reuben sandwiches. Yes. What I loved was the cheese I told everybody I got cheese for a living. It really stayed with me because I would meet a Basque cheese maker who had me taste their one cheese that’s made in different season or age different month. Really learn about traditional food making and it started having me really wonder what it would be like if I dug in the same way with Korean food. Really connected with artisans or gave that much thought to the dishes origin story. That’s how I started looking at Korean food more professionally than just a casual eater. From what my parents gave me. From there it slowly morphed into a desire to bring my Korean upbringing and putting roots in Midwestern soil and bring my Korean food to Ann Arbor. There were Korean food in Ann Arbor before. I love that you wanted to bring your approach to Korean food to Ann Arbor both in the restaurant and educating people about their favorite dishes and what goes into it which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules on how to make a delicious Korean meal at home. Yeah. Rule #1: Build a Great Korean Pantry A lot of the times when you get into a new cultures culinary practices you start by trying to substitute what you already have at home with the ingredients that are listed in the recipe. Absolutely. And while you might not want to go out and replace everything it is important that you do get a good foundation which ties directly into your rule number one. You have to rely on a great basic pantry items for Korean food. Those are soy sauces, doenjang which is soy paste, gochujang which is chili paste. Those three sauces are often known as Korean mother sauces. Gochugaru which is chili flakes, sesame seed, and sesame oil. Those are the must-haves that’s difficult to substitute. Once you get kind of used to you can level up and bring in Korean fish sauces or fermented shrimp or fermented plum syrup, perilla oil, perilla seeds. But you need to at least have the basic pantries that will get you through majority of dishes that you want to try if you’re a first-time Korean food maker. Rule #2: Find the Korean Equivalent If you are making Korean food for the first time you could get very intimidated by looking at all these dishes and thinking that you have no reference point. But when you dig down you start to see that many dishes from Korea have similar counterparts in America. Understanding that relationship makes up your rule number two. It’s the details that makes us different but we eat really similarly if you look at the bigger picture. Korean food have kalguksu which means knife cut noodles. Italians have tali-tali which is cut noodles. If you’re really comfortable grilling start with Korean barbecue. If you are comfortable with braising there is galbijjim or whole array of Korean stews that you can go with. Don’t start with 50 heads of napa cabbage and into a gigantic batch of napa kimchi because even if you succeed you still cannot make a whole meal out of just kimchi anyway. Rule #3: Understand the Korean Table When cooking Korean food there are some fundamentals to each of the dish when it comes to flavor and how you approach them. Every culture has this. Korean food has its own unique approach as well which is your rule number three. You have to understand how Korean table works. A typical Korean table would include rice. Some main dishes like galbi which would be a meat-based dish or soups and stews. The most important thing that rounds everything out is an array of banchan. Banchan is often translated as side dish but it’s so much more. So much more. It’s the best. I can just make a meal out of banchan and rice even. Same. Those are oftentimes many different kind of kimchi, many kind of pickle, fried egg or a little fried fish or many different kinds. You cannot just have rice and beef because that’s off balance for a Korean table. You need to have some sort of acidity. Because Korean table is almost set up like choose your own adventure with banchan and has so much faith in the eater. The eater decides I’m going to eat a little rice with the lettuce wrap and the sauce then I’m definitely going to have kimchi because kimchi is a must-have. If you don’t want to make 12 different kind of banchan and a gigantic Korean You just need to remember not to skip acidity and not to skip some fresh crunch. Rule #4: Understand the Dish Knowing the rules of the flavor is one thing but all these dishes take on a deeper meaning when you understand their origins which makes up your rule number four. You have to understand the dish. You have to understand the story behind the dish and how it has evolved. Yeah. That will actually make things more tasty. Yeah. It would make it more tasty for you to understand that K-pop demon hunters didn’t create tteokbokki. Tteokbokki was an existing dish that has a long history but it became a quintessential street food only in the 60s. If you know that there’s more intrigue to the dish and you will understand the soul of the dish better. More practical advice. You have the recipe. It’s not something you cooked before. Read it from top to bottom at least once. You follow the recipe just as it’s written at least once before you start going off of fusioning and I think that would be a good starting point. Rule #5: Put Your Own Stamp on It Once you follow the recipe a couple of times, really following it to a T, you can really start to see how you can add variations and how to make it your own. Your fifth and final rule talks about how getting to know a dish really well allows you to adjust for your personal preferences. What’s your rule number five? My rule number five is that once you understood the essence of the dish and you know what the current state of the dish is or how it’s traditionally done, put your own stamp on it. That’s how it has been in Korea by my ancestors too. I use the example of tteokbokki over and over. It used to be a soy sauce based dish with lots of different ingredients. It was a fancy dish from 18th century and then it evolves to become the cheapest and most quintessential street food with gochujang and sweet and spicy flavor only after 1960s. Food in Korea doesn’t stay static so you don’t have to feel obligated to keep it static. What’s more important is that you embrace the recipes, really love it, and then put it in your daily rotation and actually cook and enjoy it. It’s not supposed to be dissertation on history. Food should be enjoyed. There’s over 200 types of documented kimchi in Korea. Incredible. We don’t know what aunties are doing in the countryside. There have been said there are as many types of kimchi as there are mothers in Korea, right? It’s because those mothers are using what’s available in season, what’s available locally, and making that into kimchi. The bibimbap that you get in a seaside town will be different than the bibimbap you get in a mountainside town. So whether you’re in Michigan or Minnesota or California, you are doing what my ancestors have done. If you go to a local farmer’s market, use vegetables in season, then put in your own refund. You have earned it because you’ve understood the essence of dish from point number four. Closing Ji Hye, congratulations on everything. If people want to visit Miss Kim or follow along with what you’re cooking, where can they go? You can find us on Instagram, MissKimAnnArbor, or on the website, MissKimAnnArbor.com. Come on by in Kerrytown area in Ann Arbor if you’re here for U of M football or just to visit Ann Arbor. I would love to feed you. I can’t think of a better fall than some football and some snacks from you. Swing by, say hello, we’ll eat some Korean fried chicken and drink some soju. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Breanne's Five Rules for Making Sandwiches This week I’m joined by Breanne Kostyk , the co-owner and head baker of Flour Moon Bagels in New Orleans, to talk about her Five Rules for Making Sandwiches . From choosing great bread and never settling for a dry sandwich to building texture, height, and balance into every bite, Breanne breaks down what separates a forgettable lunch from one you’ll think about for the rest of the day. Whether you’re packing a picnic, heading to the beach, or just making lunch at home, this conversation is a reminder that even the simplest foods deserve care and attention. I’ve always believed there’s an art to making a great sandwich. It isn’t just about stacking ingredients between two slices of bread—it’s about creating something that feels complete. Every choice matters: the bread, the crunch, the sauce, the balance of salt, acid, fat, and freshness. A great sandwich can be comforting, nostalgic, and deeply satisfying all at once. Breanne approaches sandwiches with the same level of craft that a chef brings to a composed plate, and I love that philosophy. It reminds us that everyday cooking is full of opportunities to make something thoughtful, generous, and memorable. Introduction Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life . I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m down in the Big Easy talking shop with Breanne Kostyk, the co-owner and head baker of Flour Moon Bagels. She shares her five rules for making sandwiches. She talks about the importance of choosing good quality bread, how there is nothing worse than a dry sandwich, and that by building for height and balancing flavors, you’ll be able to craft the perfect sandwich anytime you step into the kitchen. It’s a great conversation for the summertime. If you’re packing a picnic or out on the road and you want to bring your own food, there is nothing better than a homemade sandwich. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. Breanne, it is so nice to meet you. Thank you for taking some time out of your busy baking schedule. Welcome to Five Rules. Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Darin. I’m really excited to be here with you. There is something so personal about a sandwich. Why does almost everyone have such a deep relationship with them? Sandwiches are so nostalgic. They’re the first thing your mom packs in your lunchbox going to school, your summer vacations on the beach, and just having a sandwich packed in the cooler for you after a day of swimming. What I love about sandwiches is it’s everything within the bread. It’s the whole meal in one handheld bite. New York is arguably America’s launching point for bagels and the bagel sandwich. What makes this form of bread such a perfect delivery system for a sando? A bagel has that crunchy exterior and the chewiness is really something you can sink your teeth into, which is really satisfying. You can fill it with anything. Any possibilities—not just cream cheese and salmon—but we really take it to that lunch sandwich that you would like. When you started Flour Moon Bagels in New Orleans, why did you want to bring the New York-inspired style to the city? I grew up in Connecticut, I went to school in New York, and I ended up moving south after the recession. I’ve been there. I ended up in the South, so I really missed that bagel that I used to get right down the street from my campus. I had been a fine dining pastry chef for ten years prior to starting Flour Moon Bagels. I worked for the Ace Hotel in New Orleans. There, I started experimenting with bagel recipes. Over the years, that recipe evolved. I just wanted to keep on improving it. We had so many visitors from out of town, specifically New York, and they were just surprised that this hotel bagel was actually really good. The fact that you have been able to develop a New York-style bagel that impresses New Yorkers is nothing short of incredible, which makes me so excited for you. That dedication to perfecting that bagel style really shows your dedication to the craft and ties directly into your first rule. Rule #1: Choose Good Quality Bread What’s your rule number one? Rule number one: choose good quality bread. Pick something up from your local bakery. You want something super, super fresh. If you get something just at the grocery store, you don’t know how long ago that was made or how long it’s been sitting on the shelves. I really love nice focaccia, something really hearty, rustic sourdough, bagels, or baguettes. Something that, when you bite into it, bounces back in your mouth. Something also with a nice crumb to it because then it’ll soak up everything—all that flavor in your sandwich. Having great bread is the foundation of a great sandwich, but I can sometimes forgive bad bread and sometimes I can ignore less-than-quality turkey. What I can’t excuse is a dry sandwich, which is a big part of your rule number two. Rule #2: A Sauce Is Mandatory Rule number two: a sauce is mandatory. Full stop. Nobody likes a dry sandwich. Mayonnaise, aioli, mustards, olive oil—there are just so many possibilities that you can add to your sandwich to give it flavor and make it not dry. You can get creative. You can do salsa verdes. I really like jams or mostardas, especially with really salty Italian meat. I think that’s one of my favorite go-to combos. Love it. That’s one of my formulas if I’m running specials: salty meat and something sweet and acidic. I just love that. I would say one to two sauces are great, but once you hit three, your sandwich might get a little too wet. Dry is a shonda. Soggy is a crime because that could have been prevented. You talk about flavors that play off each other—salty and sweet—and this idea of mixing different types of elements in a sandwich is a great way to make a successful one. That brings us to your third rule. Rule #3: Add Texture Rule number three: add textures to your sandwich. You want crunchy, hearty greens. If you’re putting veggies on that sandwich, I recommend slicing them thick so they have a little bit of crunch. I love anything pickled. Just your standard pickle. Pickled hot peppers are really delicious. Then you can also get crunch with bacon. We all are familiar with adding potato chips to a sandwich, which is pretty classic, but you can even think beyond the chips. Maybe it’s crispy shallots. We recently ran a special that was a pork roulade, and we put crunchy chicharrones all crushed up on there. It just adds a little bit extra. Once you’ve landed on the elements you want for your sandwich, understanding how to physically lay everything out is quite the art, which ties directly into your rule number four. Rule #4: Add Height Rule number four: add height to your sandwich. Make it visually appealing. I have this theory that if I’ve eaten too much and I need to digest my food, I scroll Instagram and I look at pictures of food. It makes me think that I’m hungry. You want to fold your meat and stack it so that visually it’s layered higher. Then stack it with some colorful items too. You don’t want just beige on beige. You don’t want just turkey and white cheese. Add vegetables that have color to them. Color and height—you look at that, and that’s really appetizing to me. Once you understand all the fundamentals—the bread, the sauces, the contrasting textures, the layering of the sandwich—you’ve really started to master everything that goes into making the perfect sandwich. Your fifth and final rule deals with something that people actually forget, but this core fundamental is something you should never ignore when making the perfect sandwich. Rule #5: Create a Balance of Flavors What’s your rule number five? Rule number five: create a balance of your flavors. Yes—salt, fat, acid, umami, sometimes heat or sweet, maybe combining the heat and the sweet. A sandwich should really be a vessel to hit all of those notes that you crave and leave you wanting nothing more after you’ve eaten that sandwich. Closing Breanne, thank you so much for sharing your five rules for making sandwiches. If people want to visit Flour Moon Bagels, learn more about what you’re making, or check out what I assume are daily sandwich specials posted to Instagram, where can they go? How can they see what you’re up to? Yeah, you can visit us at @fllourmoonbagels on Instagram. If you’re in New Orleans—I know it’s not a po’boy, it’s not a beignet—but we’ve got some great bagels in New Orleans. If you’re down here, please stop and visit us. Amazing. Well, I can’t wait to swing through New Orleans and grab a bagel the next time I’m in town. All right, thank you. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Trinity’s Five Rules for Eating Well on a Budget This week I’m joined by Trinity Mouzon Wofford , the co-founder and CEO of Golde and author of Eating at Home: The Nourishing Practice of Everyday Cooking . Trinity shares her Five Rules for Eating Well on a Budget , from rethinking the farmer’s market and building a produce pantry at home, to embracing the bulk aisle, and making meals something to share. It’s a conversation that reminds us that cooking well isn’t about spending more, it’s about paying attention, building habits, and finding joy in the everyday rituals that nourish both ourselves and the people around us. I’ve believed for a long time that money isn’t the best measure of abundance in the kitchen. Some of the most memorable meals I’ve ever shared were built from simple ingredients, thoughtful planning, and the desire to make sure everyone left the table feeling cared for. Trinity’s rules reinforce something I’ve come to appreciate over years of cooking and hosting: generosity isn’t about extravagance. It’s about effort, about taking the time to cook for someone else, pulling up another chair, stretching what’s in the pot just a little farther, and discovering that the richest meals are often the ones made with the greatest intention. Introduction Hello and welcome to five rules for the good life I’m your host Darin Bresnitz today I’m joined by Trinity Mouzon Wofford who is the co-founder and CEO of Golde and whose new cookbook eating at home the nourishing practice of everyday cooking is one of my favorite cookbooks of the season she’s here to share her five rules for eating well on a budget she talks about the importance of not side eyeing the farmers market that by building your own produce pantry will allow you to put affordable recipes and that by joining together around the table is not only a way to save money but will enrich your life overall it’s a fantastic conversation for anyone who’s looking to get more out of their dollars at the markets and to also support the local community at the same time so let’s get into the rules here on HRN Trinity it is so nice to meet you thank you for coming to us all the way from hudson valley appreciate you making the time to be on the show thanks darren I’m excited to talk some rules yes you have had a long career as a writer what drew you into the food world specifically I think I’ve always identified romantically as being a writer but the core of a lot of my work has been on the entrepreneurial side building a brand sure the book came about I mean I’ve always been involved in this health and wellness world through Golde and so that edible side of it was there I was pregnant with my first kid I was in the depths of running my business and I wasn’t a professional chef but why did any of that stop you from running your first cookbook it almost did the woman who ended up being my agent I think that I came to her and said I really don’t think it’s a good time but funnily enough I trusted her faith in my vision rather than saying no or diving all the way in I kind of just kept taking the next step and the next step and I wouldn’t say it was a before you know it because the whole thing took four years of course before I knew it there was a book writing your first cookbook Starting your own business getting started as a writer all of the early points of any of those endeavors notoriously do not pay well but that doesn’t mean you have to eat poorly right what do you remember of those early days and those early dishes that you cooked at home from that scrappy time in your life I was in my early 20s when I started my business I co-founded it with my now husband shout out we’re high school sweethearts so it’s been codependent for a really long time we didn’t have a lot of funds to go around I was at this time pulling out forty dollars a week in grocery budget sure I actually found that my dollars went a lot further when I skipped the supermarket and went straight to the union square farm where I could go direct to farmers that also helped to inform a more seasonal way of eating most of the time lunch was rice with a pickled red cabbage on top over and over again like it’s spring so there’s turnips a lot of it was this very simple food that was also deeply comforting deeply nourishing and pretty friendly to a tight budget Just because you’re on a budget doesn’t mean you don’t have to eat well and that you don’t have stories to tell and that is very true in your first book eating at home the nourishing practice of everyday cooking given that it was a multi-year journey to write this and you had your business and your baby there was so much life to fit into this book how did you narrow down the stories and recipes you wanted to share the recipes are all mine and my husband issei’s home recipes beautiful so a lot of it was really issei and I writing down and collecting what our meals were on any given week the sunday pancakes or the lunches which are still usually rice with vegetables the first idea for the book was okay well we’re going to talk about how to eat well according to trinity founder of Golde right the first things that I was coming up with were eat more locally make a ritual of visiting your farmers markets etc and the response that I would get as I started to put those ideas together was this is very nice it’s a process it’s about chiseling the thing out of the stone right yes the response tended to be people are busy yep what can they do that’s a little bit more realistic I knew we were all busy and yet I think that’s really the reason why we need more home cooking than ever yes we are simultaneously living at a time where we’re so aware of meditation and exercise and all of these practices to be more we know that we’re stressed we’re going to therapy yes one of the things that has helped me the most in feeling more grounded in the moment is cooking sitting down to a meal is even grocery shopping with my family in a way that isn’t like let me get this over with Seeing how you practice what you preach when it comes to cooking and living that life I am so excited for you to be sharing your five rules for eating well on a budget just because you don’t have a lot of money to spend doesn’t mean you can’t spend it smartly and support your local community Rule #1: Don’t Side-Eye the Farmer’s Market Which ties into your rule number one rule number one is don’t side eye the farmer’s market I have been on a tear with this when I was talking about the book I would say oh the farmer’s market and it was like oh the farmer’s market your basket your tote bag the farmer’s market trips people up because for the most part they get stuck on the strawberries yes they’re like oh my god 14 a pint I can’t afford to eat here this is ridiculous you’re missing the hard-working produce you’re messing the turnips you’re mixing the rutabagas you’re missing the kale the potatoes that stuff is not on average any more expensive than you’ll find at the supermarket so often we feel like the sky is falling and there’s nothing we can do except vote and pray but like one other thing that you could do hear me out on this is you can find small opportunities to funnel your dollars into more direct localized economies that does not have to mean all of a sudden going full barter it could just mean getting your potatoes from once you start buying this produce you will understand how much you can physically get for the money that you spend so much so that you might get overwhelmed by how much you’re bringing home but having Rule #2: Build a Produce Pantry of Always-There Staples Rule number two is build a produce pantry of always their staples one of the things that freaks people out the most about cooking from scratch is they buy some vegetables and then they open up their fridge and it’s 5 30 pm and everyone’s already hungry and they have no idea what to do with a cauliflower or how to combine it with whatever they’ve got sure you get better at that the more you cook but the secret to accelerating the pace is to just buy the yes there’s a lot of produce whether it’s leafy greens or it’s just things that store really well that are going to be available nearly year-round you can build out a habit of buying them again and again so you can sprinkle in the fun little seasonal things try something new but ideally when you’re opening up the fridge and trying to figure out what to cook you’re not staring down a whole bunch of stuff that you’ve never cooked before this idea of creating a familiar supermarket or pantry within your house does come with practice both in figuring out your preferences in what you eat and what you like to cook once you’ve discovered what works for you heading through this Rule #3: Venture Into the Bulk Aisle Section of any supermarket makes up your rule number three rule number three venture into the bulk aisle this took me a really long time interesting I am a fairly new convert to the bulk aisle most of what you’re paying for and I can say this with confidence because as an entrepreneur in the consumer product space it really is this way most of what you’re paying for when you buy a food product is packaging if you can bypass the cost of somebody siphoning off your almonds into a nice little packet and the cost of the packaging itself you can save a whole lot of money on your grocery bill so what I buy in bulk right now now are popping corn kernels and I make popcorn myself right there with you oh my god you don’t have to spend seven dollars on chips anymore cooking oils vinegars that great machine where they grind the peanut butter for you when you press the button that’s joyful instant whimsy you also organize things into your own jars etc and it makes it a lot neater and easier to have all of your stuff in the cabinet all these separate branded boxes and bags are so it’s like a nightmare and then I don’t want to go in there and I don’t want to cook and you’re heaving this great sigh trying to find your baking powder or what have you once you have a working kitchen and a working pantry you’ve organized it you know it’s in there you know what you like working then you got to get to the actual process of putting it together which is a fundamental tenant Rule #4: Great Ingredients, Simply Cooked Of your rule number four rule number four is great ingredients simply cooked I think one of the things that freaks people out about cooking from scratch is this idea of these very involved multi-step processes you’re gonna need 10 different spices and you’re going to buy a spice just for one recipe and you’re never going to use it again sure I like to get the best quality stuff I can get within reason that is saving you more money than any other tip yes buy a good olive oil find a salt that you like when you get a good vegetable from the farmer’s market you can just slice it up and put some olive oil and salt over it and just call it a day for like 70 percent of dishes. Rule #5: Eat Together Ii love the process of cooking and I think once you get into this rhythm and this world of being one with your kitchen it really is a beautiful thing and your fifth and final rule talks about once you bring more food and more joy nto your kitchen you’re able to do this what’s your rule number five rule number five is eat together I love it if you have literally anyone else at the table with you it feels so much more obvious and beneficial to make something and make it a little lovely it’s harder to do that if you’re constantly eating alone there’s a difference between the occasional peaceful meal to yourself which I definitely can appreciate as mom and the habitual avoidance of some sort of communal gathering it doesn’t matter if you’re living with family or however your situation looks this could just be getting some friends over on a weekend the other big benefit of eating together too is that then you’re getting into this process of the collective and you’re talking about being in the kitchen together sharing the workload of prepping the food cleaning up afterwards you find as you start to build out these habits of eating more collectively that there’s more than enough to go around Always. Closing Trinity, congratulations on everything. If people want to get the book, if people want to check out Golde, if they’re going to be a little bit and people want see what you’re cooking, where can they go? How can they see what You’re Up To? I have a website and it’s TrinityMouzon.com The Book Eating at Home is available everywhere that books are sold. Golde is Golde with an E at the end, .co .co and on Instagram I am at Trinity Muzan and Golde is at Golde. I love the book, and hopefully I’m in the Hudson Valley soon, and we can eat together and celebrate life. That sounds wonderful, thank you, Darin. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Renata’s Five Rules for Bringing Fine Dining to Everyday Baking This week, I sit down with Renata Ameni , executive pastry chef and partner at Birdee , to talk about bringing the mindset of fine dining into everyday baking. After spending years in some of the world’s most exacting kitchens, Renata shares her Five Rules for Bringing Fine Dining to Every Day Baking. She talks about one piece of equipment that is a must-have, how to set up your station for success, buy a scale, and to never overlook the power of a thoughtful garnish. Whether you’re baking your very first loaf of bread or trying to make your cakes, cookies, and pastries just a little bit better, these are practical lessons that will immediately change the way you approach the craft. One of the things I admire most about Renata is that she doesn’t see fine dining as something exclusive or unattainable. Instead, she treats it as a way of thinking. Precision isn’t about perfectionism; it’s about removing variables so your creativity has room to shine. The same discipline that helped her succeed at Eleven Madison Park and Saga now shows up in a neighborhood bakery where the goal is simple: make someone’s day a little better through a great pastry. It’s a reminder that excellence rarely comes from complicated techniques. More often, it’s the accumulation of small, intentional decisions repeated over and over again until they become second nature. Introduction Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m back in Greenpoint chatting with Renata Ameni, who is the executive pastry chef and partner at Birdee. She’s here to share her five rules for bringing fine dining to everyday baking, about the importance of having a scale at home, how choosing the right plateware elevates what you bake, and that by perfecting the balance of salt and acid, you’ll be able to level up your at-home baking game. It is incredible insights for someone who has baked at some of the highest levels of dining and a great guide for anyone who’s looking to try baking at home for the first time or for anyone who’s looking to raise their prowess. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. From Brazil to Fine Dining Renata, so nice to meet you coming from my old stomping ground of Williamsburg and Greenpoint. Thanks for making the time to sit down and chat with me. Of course, thank you for having me. Brazil has such a rich tradition of pastries. What do you love about Brazilian baking culture that is different than French or Italian or any other parts of the world? First of all, it has a lot of eggs, has a lot of yolks because it comes from the Portuguese. So the Portuguese nuns, they use egg whites to starch their uniforms, so they had all these egg yolks leftover. So they start making sweets with that. I feel like in Brazil, the pastries, the sweets, they’re very easy to make. It’s very easy to make at home. It’s fast. You don’t need thousands of equipment or anything like that. So I think that this is great. Lessons from the World’s Best Kitchens You’ve worked at some of the highest upper echelons of fine dining, Jean-Georges, Eleven Madison Park, and Reisa. What mentality and what tips did you take away from those moments in your career? Those places changed my life. It was a lot about discipline, especially at Eleven Madison Park. The practice, like boring thing that you have to make every day, that really makes you better. The way that you approach your cooking, more than just sit down to eat, it’s the whole experience to make people feel that they’re special. Opening Birdee Pulling from your background from Brazil and baking there and working in these fine dining restaurants, you have now opened your first solo bakery, Birdee, in Williamsburg. When did you realize it was time to take flight on your own? What did you want to say? Working in restaurants, pastry chef always has to kind of adapt to what the savory chef is doing, right? Sure. I always had all the freedom at Crown Shy and Saga and everything that James would let me do anything. But still, you have to align with the kind of food that the restaurant serves. At one point, I’m like, I just want to be able to do my own thing. It’s not that I wasn’t. I really was. I just wanted not to be behind anyone’s shadow, which was really hard for me because then you kind of own the spotlight. Everything you make is on you. Can’t blame on anyone else. The Five Rules Rule #1: Get a Scale I am not a baker. I am much more comfortable as a savory chef. A lot of the times when you think about that type of cooking, you go more to these fine dining, high-end, Michelin-star type restaurants. What most people don’t realize is that you need to bring those same elements if you want to have that same type of success when you’re making baked goods, which is why I’m so excited for you to chat about your five rules for bringing fine dining to everyday baking. Now, when I got into bread, I got the first piece of equipment that you talk about and it changed everything. What’s your rule number one? Get a scale. Full stop. It’s the simplest thing. It doesn’t have to be a fancy scale or anything like that. You can get measuring spoons too. No. Just get the scale. It’s worth it. It’s a little investment. It’s going to really change the way you bake. It’s easier, you’re going to make less mistakes, and it’s going to be worth it. Rule #2: Have Your Mise en Place Ready Once you get a scale, once you know the exact weights, I have found that being prepared is another key part of baking. So being prepared in this way is a big part of rule number two. Have your, we call it in restaurants, mise en place. It’s going to be a huge problem. You’re going to have to do it all over again. And that’s what I tell my team. I’ve been doing this for 20 years. I still do it. I finish scaling things. I go back to the recipe and I kind of cross everything that is already scaled. You can always adjust to savory. When that bread is fully baked, there’s no putting salt back in. No, there’s not. And it depends on the bread you’re making. You have sourdough, whatever. It’s going to take you three days to be able to make that recipe again. Rule #3: Elevate Your Plateware Since I mostly make pizzas, I have either a cutting board or a metal pizza platter that I serve all my food on. Anytime I do anything else, I feel like the presentation is always lacking. Having these elements in your pantry makes up your rule number three. The plateware where you serve your food is going to matter because a lot of fine dining is the presentation. Have wooden boards or if you have a big platter, things that are really nice that you already have at home. It’s not like you have to go buy anything. Of course. Be creative. Sometimes you think you have this vintage stuff at home that was from your mom or your grandma. It’s going to elevate whatever you want. Rule #4: Garnishes Matter Once you have the pastry or the bread or whatever you baked on the plate, adding little flourishes can take what you’re making up to another level, which is your rule number four. Garnishes, they matter. If you’re making a cake, make a crumble. Put a little crumble on top. Put fresh fruits. If you’re able to buy microgreens and microflowers, they’re your best friends. It takes nothing. You don’t have to do anything. But if you put it on top, it already looks super elevated. Rule #5: Balance with Salt and Acid You’ve done the measuring. You’ve done the plating. But when you’re thinking about what goes into making an elevated fine dining type of baked good, pulling from the savory world makes up your fifth and final rule. What’s rule number five? Salt and acid. All the time. All the time. Always salt. And acid is super important, especially for cake. Put some acid in the frosting. It’s going to take something that is, “Oh, this is tasty,” to, “Oh my God, this is amazing.” I like this burnt honey cake that we make at Birdee. It’s very salty in a good way because there’s the burnt honey and you add the salt and it just brings you to a whole other level. I like to serve it with a very acidic strawberry sorbet. Where to Find Birdee Renata, if people want to see what you’re serving or check out what you’re doing or just come by the shop, where can they go? Come to Birdee at the Refinery at the Domino Building, and we’re there literally every day of the week. Amazing. Well, Renata, I cannot wait to swing in and grab some pastries. Something very sweet and something very sour. Thank you so much for having me. I hope to see you there soon. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Joe's Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself Joe Beddia didn’t just build one of the best pizzerias in America—he built a world. From the moment you walk down the alley and step through the door at Pizzeria Beddia, you can feel that every detail exists for a reason. In this episode, Joe shares his Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself , from finding work that genuinely inspires you to surrounding yourself with people you want to spend your days alongside. We also talk about the challenge of protecting your values as success arrives, why your name is your most valuable asset, and how building something lasting requires equal parts conviction, curiosity, and restraint. Whether you’re opening a restaurant, starting a business, or simply trying to create a life that feels like your own, Joe’s rules are a thoughtful roadmap for doing meaningful work on your own terms. There’s something about going home to Philadelphia that always resets me. Maybe it’s because so much of who I am was shaped there, or maybe it’s because the city has always rewarded people who care more about substance than spectacle. Every trip home is an excuse to revisit old favorites, but even more than that, it’s a chance to see what people have built since I left. Joe’s restaurant is one of those places. It isn’t just a great pizzeria—it feels complete. Every corner, every plate, every decision reflects the same point of view. As someone who spends a lot of time talking to people about creativity, I find fully realized visions endlessly inspiring. They’re a reminder that the best work doesn’t happen by accident. It happens when someone has the courage to imagine an entire world—and then patiently builds it, one decision at a time. Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself Joe Beddia Hi everyone, before we get into today’s episode, I have a little bit of housekeeping to take care of. I am so excited to announce that I am partnering with the Food Institute who has acquired HRN and is the new home for Five Rules for the Good Life . Together, we’re going to be growing I couldn’t be more excited about this new partnership and excited to see where we take the show. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life . I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m in my hometown of Philadelphia chatting with Joe Beddia, the chef and owner of Pizzeria Beddia and the author of the incredible pizza book Pizza Camp . He’s here to share his Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself. We talk about the importance of doing things that inspire you, working with people you want to be around, and staying true to your vision and values as you grow. It’s a great conversation for anyone starting their own business—or anyone looking to build something meaningful with intention. So let’s get into the rules. Building a World Joe, so good to see you. Thanks again for all the hospitality the last time I was in Philly. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Excited to be here. For anyone who’s ever visited Pizzeria Beddia, they really get a sense of your vision. How did you approach bringing your worldview and mentality into the restaurant? I had a unique circumstance where I had a very small pizzeria for five years. It was literally myself making pizza in a 300-square-foot shoebox. When our lease was up, I was approached by a startup restaurant group in Philadelphia. I got creative control over the menu, the design, and everything, which is probably pretty rare. I worked with a lot of friends and really tried to create something special. It was a different time. We were developing this in 2017. Money was different. We did it for a lot less and got a lot more for our dollar. I was there when it opened, and I was there a couple months ago. You can still feel the DNA of what you wanted to build, even though it’s evolved over the years. How has it changed? It’s evolved through the people. We have different cooks now. Our head chef and sous chefs are different. I’d probably say the restaurant is the best it’s ever been. That’s really a testament to those individuals and how they’re able to work together. At this point, I don’t really want any credit. I created something, but I’d like them to take ownership. Giving someone the opportunity to be creative and own new menu items has been amazing. From my perspective, it’s such a great experience because you walk down this little alleyway, see the neon sign, walk through the door, and suddenly you’re inside this whole world you’ve built. What do you hope people feel when they come here? I like keeping tradition alive by using really great ingredients and making well-fermented dough, but I also like stretching ourselves creatively. We pickle strawberries and make burrata salads. You can come for a traditional pizza that reminds you of your childhood, but you can also have a great soft serve with amaro on top or a beautiful bottle of wine. It’s about honoring tradition while giving ourselves permission to be creative in the same space. Now that you’ve been open since 2019, written an incredible book, and received so much recognition, I’m excited for you to share your Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself. Rule One Go Where You Feel Comfortable A lot of people feel like they have to constantly push themselves or chase opportunities that don’t really fit who they are. But your first rule is about grounding yourself before you build something. What’s Rule Number One? Go where you feel comfortable. That’s a tricky thing because you should absolutely challenge yourself. But you should also feel like you’re in a space that makes sense for you. You want to work for a great chef. It might be difficult. But if you’re learning and growing, every failure becomes growth. It’s kind of like Philadelphia. You come into this town and it’s rough around the edges. But once you prove yourself, people invite you into their homes. Kitchens work the same way. You have to earn your place. Rule Two Find What Inspires You You have to be inspired enough that you’re willing to dedicate your time—and really part of your life—to something. I feel fortunate because I became obsessed with pizza while working in restaurants. I’d travel to New York, visit all the old-school places, go to Di Fara, Totonno’s, Una Pizza. I was fascinated by serious pizza makers. Eventually I started experimenting on my own and realized, “I want to take a shot at this.” How do you become inspired? For me, it was traveling and tasting. That’s what changed everything. Once I found that inspiration, I decided to go all in. Rule Three Work With People You Want to Be Around Going all in on a restaurant means endless hours. Finding the right people to spend those hours with is one of the hardest parts. What’s Rule Number Three? Work with people you want to be around. Someone doesn’t have to have the most experience in the world. They just have to be a good person. They need to care, show initiative, and be interested in learning. You can teach almost anyone the technical side of the job if they’re passionate about the work. Rule Four Figure Out What Medicine Works for You Even if you’ve found inspiration and surrounded yourself with good people, this work is still incredibly difficult. There are great days and terrible days. Rule Number Four? Figure out what medicine works for you. It’s a little tongue-in-cheek because when I started, the medicine that worked for me was drinking—which isn’t something I’d recommend to anyone. Eventually it led me down a path where I was overusing alcohol to deal with stress. That pushed me toward therapy and healthier ways of dealing with anxiety. I’m not sober, but I have a completely different perspective than I did in 2013 when I opened the original pizzeria. I just opened a restaurant in London, and I realized that one of my rules now is simply finding something healthy that genuinely works for you. There’s a tremendous amount of stress in this business, and you need a way to manage it. Rule Five Your Name Is Your Currency Now that you have two restaurants and years of success behind you, I’m sure you’ve had opportunities that didn’t align with the world you wanted to build. Your fifth rule is about staying true to yourself. Trying to stay true to who you are and your values. There are always going to be offers. People will want you to sell something or attach your name to something you don’t really believe in. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve done less and less of those things. Your name is your currency. It’s all you really have. So you want to spend it on things you genuinely believe in and can be proud of. Closing Joe, congratulations on everything. If people want to come have a slice, a whole pie, a bottle of wine, or simply experience the world you’ve built, where should they go? Pizzeria Beddia, 1313 North Lee Street in Philadelphia. Or Bar Aetna in the Newington Green neighborhood of London. Incredible. Joe, I can’t wait. I’ll be back for Thanksgiving and we’ll definitely stop by to pick up some pies to bring home. Thanks for making the time. Great to see you as always. Excellent. Thank you. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Chef Adrianne Calvo has built a life around the belief that flavor is the ultimate north star. As the chef, writer, and restaurateur behind Chef Adrianne's Vineyard Restaurant and Bar in Miami, she has spent her career proving that the fundamentals never go out of style. In this episode, she breaks down her Five Rules for Cooking with Maximum Flavor — from why the real work happens before anything ever hits the pan, to how controlling moisture is the secret most cooks overlook, to why the final ten percent of a dish is responsible for ninety percent of its impact. Whether you are cooking for the people you love or just trying to get more out of what you make at home, this one will change the way you think about what's on your plate. What I love about sitting down with Chef Adrianne is that she reminds you that flavor is not a technique, it's a commitment. It's easy to chase trends, to pile on ingredients, to rush to the finish line — and she calls all of that out with such clarity and warmth that you immediately want to go back into the kitchen and start over. The way she talks about tension, contrast, and intention made me think less about cooking and more about how the best experiences in life are the ones that engage you rather than just comfort you. That's the kind of conversation that sticks with you long after the meal is over For my first piece for Caper , I wrote about Jingbo Lou and the incredible community he has helped build at L.A.’s Alpine Courtyard. His approach to the landlord-tenant relationship is a true innovation and something that could be a north star for the shifting restaurant landscape. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m in Miami sitting down with chef, writer, restaurateur, and teacher, Adrianne Calvo, whose spot, Chef Adrianne’s Vineyard, Restaurant, and Bar, has been serving up. She’s here to share her five rules for cooking with maximum flavor. She talks about the importance of preparation before putting anything in the pan, that the amount of moisture in a dish can be maker and that the final 10% of finishing determines 90% of its impact. It is a great conversation for anyone who leads with flavor in the kitchen as looking for extra tips to get the most out of what they make at home. So let’s get into the rules. Getting Started: A Culinary Journey Chef Adrianne, so nice to meet you. Thank you for sitting down with me all the way from Miami. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. You got into the culinary world at such a young age. What foods and flavors drew you in? I got into the — yeah, I wanted to be a journalist. I was put in a cooking class by mistake my junior year of high school, and it wasn’t until Johnson and Wales University came in and did a demo doing a strawberry and cream cheese stuffed French toast that completely enchanted and captivated me. That exact dish that made me switch paths for the rest of my life. Hopping on this path must have opened up such a big world to you and put you on so many adventures, including heading to Napa Valley, which was a big inspiration for you in your life and your restaurant, Chef Adrianne’s Vineyard Restaurant and Bar. What was it about that area that inspired you so much? One of the culinary competitions that I had won while at Johnson & Wales University, and I chose to go to Napa Valley because going to culinary school, they really focus on that connection of the land, the food, and the wine and how it makes people feel. I’ve been hearing about for two years now. I want to feel it. I want to go experience it. And I wasn’t even of legal drinking age. Boots on the ground. I remember going with my mom and I was like, oh my gosh, everything they said is real. This is like Narnia for bon vivant. I remember thinking one day, if I ever have a restaurant, I want to bring that feeling to Miami. At that time, Miami was really missing the mark. There was no connection to land, food, wine, sitting down at a table, bursting with different flavors, really knowing the story of where your food came from. Don’t even get me started on the wine. I don’t even know if Miami knew the term wine in the early 2000s. Napa really inspired my very first restaurant, Chef Adrian’s Vineyard Restaurant and Bar. That’s not to say that your restaurant doesn’t follow those, but it seems that flavor is your North Star. Oh, yes. Why does that element of cooking dictate everything you do? It’s the fundamental belief that trends come and go. And much like fashion, Coco Chanel that said, what’s great will always be great. I’m just paraphrasing it. That’s what classics are. And you are right. We don’t follow trends. We’re actually the opposite of that. The human experience of being able to find the guiding principles in your cooking and your life and your business makes me so excited for you to share your five rules for cooking with maximum flavor. Rule #1: Build Flavor Before Heat Ever Touches the Pan Your first rule is something that I have gotten so much better at and learned the importance of as I’ve cooked over the years. What’s your rule number one? Rule number one is build flavor before heat ever touches the pan. So many people rush to get things in a pan. Maximum flavor doesn’t begin at the stove. It begins in preparation, seasoning your proteins in advance, tempering ingredients the right way, and understanding how salt migrates and what separates dimensional cooking from flat execution. Rule #2: Control Moisture Like It’s Currency You talk about salt and you talk about adding flavor. Some of the times when people prepare a dish in advance, there’s a marinade or they’re drawing moisture out. It can affect the way that things actually cook, especially if you’re looking for a crust with the steak or a nice type of sear. Your rule number two talks about keeping this in mind when it comes to moisture. Rule number two is control moisture like its currency. Water is the silent saboteur of flavor. Excess moisture prevents caramelization and this is like a big deal for me. So many cooks and even well-trained chefs don’t realize you just take a scallop that’s very moist by nature and you season it and then you throw it in a pan to try and get that nice sear on it. Yeah. You’re never going to get a sear. You’re just going to poach or steam that scallop. You’re never going to get color on it. You’re going to overcook it to death. Removing that moisture, taking that extra step to pat it dry. Oh my goodness, that’s a secret. You want that sear, that char, and you can only achieve that by removing the moisture. Rule #3: Layer with Intent, Not Excess Removing items when you’re cooking and editing, especially when you reference someone like Coco Chanel, is really important to achieve the final result that you want. And even though you talk about maximum flavor, that doesn’t always mean more is more. What’s your rule number three? Rule number three is layer with intent, not excess. More ingredients do not equal more flavor. Precision does. Intention does. Think in layers. Fat for richness, acid for lift, salt for amplification, heat for a little intrigue, and texture for memory. Just think of something simple like a burger or a hot dog, and sometimes people will put potato chips on it, and that crunch really makes a difference. Just having that sensory really makes for that unforgettable bite. The fat versus the acid, the salt versus the sweet — that balancing of flavors really does make an impact when you’re putting together any sort of either savory or sweet dish or just cooking for something that really is going to awaken the palate. Your rule number four talks about how comfort isn’t always the goal. Rule #4: Cook for Contrast, Not Comfort Oh no. What’s your fourth rule? Rule number four is cook for contrast, not comfort. The palate remembers tension. Crisp against tender, bright against deep, hot against cool. Oh my gosh, when you think hot against cool you just think of warm apple caramel tart and then cold ice cream. A perfectly cooked dish without contrast is forgettable. A dish that plays with opposition becomes addictive. Great cooking doesn’t soothe, it engages you. You put all this time into cooking, you’ve had this preparation, you’ve thought about the balance, you’ve controlled the moisture. Your fifth and final rule talks about pulling it all together and it’s where a lot of people, including myself, get really nervous right before you present what you’ve cooked to the people you love. What’s your rule number five? Rule #5: Finish Like It Matters Finish like it matters because you’re cooking for the people you love. Oftentimes, you’re pulling it out of the oven. You just, boom, goes on the table. It’s a race to the finish line. But the final 10% of a dish determines 90% of its impact. A squeeze of acid right at the end, a drizzle of olive oil, fresh herbs — I love that. Where to Find Chef Adrianne Well, if anyone wants to try your complete dishes at the restaurant or join any of your cooking classes on live streams or pick up your book, where can they go? How can they follow along with what you’re up to and what you’re doing in the world? You can follow me on socials at Chef Adrianne, and that’s the same handle for YouTube, for the livestream, for the channel, or you can pick up any of my cookbooks on Amazon or wherever books are sold. Amazing. Congratulations to everything. I can’t wait to swing to the restaurant next time I’m in Miami. Oh, thank you so much for having me. It was awesome, and congratulations on everything you’re doing. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Noah Galuten has spent years cooking alongside some of the best chefs, pit masters, and grill masters in America, so when it came time to write Grill Time , he wanted to share everything he had learned. He joined the show to share his Five Rules for Better Grilling , covering everything from why gas grills deserve more respect to the flavor advantages of cooking with wood and charcoal. We also get into the surprising power of mayonnaise, why chasing perfect grill marks can be overrated, and the one tool that will instantly make you a more confident cook. Whether you’re feeding a crowd or just trying to get dinner on the table, these are practical rules you’ll actually use. Summer has officially arrived. The days are longer, the drinks are colder, and every meal suddenly feels like a good excuse to be outside. There’s something about cooking over fire that changes the pace of the day. Neighbors linger a little longer, friends show up a little earlier, and dinner becomes the event instead of the thing that happens before it. If you’ve been looking for a reason to dust off the grill, invite some people over, and make the most of the season, this conversation is the inspiration you need to get started. Photo by Kristin Teig Jacaranda’s recent opening in Los Angeles has had the culinary community abuzz with Daniel Patterson’s return to fine dining. Opened and owned with his wife, Sarah Lewitinn, this thirty-seat, tasting menu has been years in the making. Read my latest profile for Fine Dining Lovers on them, their love story and their road to opening. Introduction Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m joined by Noah Galuten, whose new cookbook, Grill Time, Why You Should Be Grilling for Better, Healthier, Easier, and More Delicious Meals, is out now wherever books are sold, to share his five rules for better grilling. We talk about how there’s no shame in the gas grill game. With that being said, nothing tastes better than smoke in food and how one secret ingredient is the key to better grilling. Summertime is here and if you’re looking to get outside and to do some cooking, there is no better conversation for some inspiration and some rules to get your grill game going. So let’s get into the rules. Why Grilling Is Different Noah, it’s so good to see you. Congratulations. Your new book has been out for a little less than a week. Grill time. Thanks for stopping by and making time for the show. Thank you for having me, man. This first week has been so great. Summertime is here. It’s time for grilling. What do you love so much about this season and cooking this way? There’s so many things I love about grilling and the great thing about living in Los Angeles is you can grill 12 months out of the year. I know. I try to be nice to the people who don’t have the weather that we have. That’s true. Grilling is just the way that I actually find myself cooking for my family the most often. It is easier, cleaner, faster, often healthier than you would do it on the stove. There’s stuff that I would never do on a stove in a million years that I will do on a grill a hundred times out of a hundred. To cook a piece of chicken, to put on a salad, who’s pan searing? No one. It’s always grilled chicken at a restaurant. Throw it on a gas grill in the back, charcoal grill. You’ve got something instantly. A lot of people get intimidated by grilling. It’s usually due to one bad experience because they’ve only tried it a handful of times. How do people get back on the horse after having a grilling mistake? It’s like anything. The second time is going to be so much easier. The barrier to entry is basically having a grill. And once you have one, do it a couple times, get better at it. Writing Grill Time Once you find that inspiration of what to cook and how to cook it, it just makes you want to get outside even more. With so much of this type of cooking under your belt, how did you select the stories and recipes you wanted to share? When a band has their first album, they spend their entire life creating it and then your second album is two years later and you’re trying to come up with a whole lifetime of stuff. This was this lucky stroke of mine because my first cookbook was so much of my family cooking growing up, my mom’s food, the food that I make for my family at home. And then I have this whole other side of grilling that I’ve been doing forever and learning from amazing mentors like Kevin Bloodsoe for Bloodsoe’s Barbecue and with Ari Colander for Seafood Stuff, Jeremy Fox for Vegetables. I got to lean all that information into the way that I cook and grill at home. So it just spilled out of me. It came together so quickly. There was so much food that I cook all the time on the grill that I’ve never gotten to write about. Grilling cookbooks were just different from regular at-home cookbooks. Grilling is the type of cooking practice that you can always get better at. You can always refine your approach. Rule #1: There Is No Shame in the Gas Grill Game Now I’ve been around a lot of chefs who swear on nothing but aged pecan wood or cherry wood or some other sort of refined— Those people don’t cook for their kids on a weeknight is my theory on that. I love cooking with wood and charcoal. I have an entire outdoor cooking show on Tastemade called Barbecue Smokeout I make with Kevin and Bloodso. It is an amazing way to cook and I love it. But with that being said, a great part of my life is getting dinner on the table and being able to throw— The Gas Grill is an incredible— A Gas Grill, there is no shame on it. And there’s no reason that just because you can make something more delicious with Smoke or Charcoal that will take longer time that you shouldn’t just do the easier option when it’s easier. And having limited time on a weeknight or when you’re just trying to make a quick lunch, gas is great. Rule #2: Nothing Tastes Better Than Grilling Over Wood and Charcoal But when you do have the time, maybe it’s a weekend, maybe it’s a holiday, your rule number two talks about this type of grilling. Rule number two, nothing tastes better than grilling over wood and charcoal. So I kind of break this book down into two categories, Sure Weeknight Grilling and Weekend Project Grilling. Yes, I have cooked so many slow smoked pork ribs in the thousands over my career at Bloodso’s and I’m very good at it. I’ve had it a million times, but now my favorite rack of ribs in the world— I call it smoke grill. They do it in the book where essentially you take a classic grill. I love these PK grills. It’s a really old company that’s been doing it forever. You essentially push all the charcoal to one side of the grill, put wood chunks on top, almost like you’re doing a reverse sear like on a two inch thick ribeye. Instead of— You Get A Smoky Crispy Edged Rib That’s Done In Half The Time Of A Slow Smoke. You Can’t Fake The Flavor Of Smoke. Rule #3: Getting Char on One Side Is More Important Than Getting Char Everywhere Rule Number Three is getting char on one side is more important than getting char. So this comes out especially with things that are quicker cooking like a burger patty, asparagus, zucchini. If you try to get char all over the entire thing, especially if you’re on a gas grill that’s not super firepower, doesn’t have a ton of BTUs, get that char and that coffee. Rule #4: Mayonnaise Is the Secret to Better Grilling There is a chef trick that I was taught years ago about how to add some more moisture and flavor and to give yourself a little bit of grace when you’re cooking on the grill, which I’m so happy because it showed up as rule number four. Here are the haters. They know what’s coming. Guys, it’s mayonnaise. Yep. Mayonnaise is the secret to better grilling. And all you weirdo mayonnaise people out there, you guys are worse than cilantro people because theirs is a genetic condition. You guys just can’t stop talking about how you don’t like mayonnaise. It’s not about tasting mayonnaise. It’s not about eating mayonnaise. It’s about the chemical properties of a perfectly emulsified fat that you can use it for so many things on the grill. The big one to me, and I learned this from my buddy Ari Colander, who’s an incredible chef, painting the thinnest veil of mayonnaise on a piece of fish or a whole fish allows it to become virtually nonstick on the grill. It also allows you to get seasonings to adhere perfectly to it and it makes it brown better. I can cook perfect crispy skin salmon on the grill with just one flip, a little bit of mayonnaise, some salt and pepper and it’s amazing. Anything that you can do to add extra flavor and give yourself some breathing room on the grill is a rule well used. Rule #5: Use a Meat Thermometer Your fifth and final rule deals directly with understanding when to take your meat off the grill. What’s your rule number five? Use a meat thermometer. What are we talking about here, guys? It’s the easiest game changer. There’s this masculine thing of, no, I don’t need it, I know meat, I can touch the palm of my hand, no worries. You know the exact internal temp of a pre-marinated Trader Joe’s pork? And that’s fine. This is a sub-rule to this rule. Cooking it properly. Closing Noah, congratulations on everything. If they want to pick up a copy of Grill Time or come see you on your incredible book tour that has a lot of delicious food and great guests, where can they go to learn more? You can go to my website for all the tour dates. I have a 21-city tour with some of the best chefs and restaurants in the country. People like Chris Bianco, Frank Piniello, Ann Kim, Aaron Franklin, Kevin Blood. So it is a crazy, crazy, crazy lineup. I’m so blown away by the kindness of the people in our industry. Check that out on my website. Also, anywhere books are sold. The book already came out. So if you’re on Amazon, it’s probably 75% off the week after it came out. Good luck out on the road and I hope to be eating food and seeing you behind a grill very soon. Let’s go grill some meat and have some beers. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Matty Matheson has spent the last decade carving out his own lane by doing what most people are too scared to do: making things before anyone gives them permission. On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life , Matty joins Darin to talk about creating Just a Dash , finding his on-camera voice before “content creator” was even a career path, and why the best ideas usually start with a couple of friends, a camera, and a willingness to see what happens. They discuss trusting your collaborators, investing in yourself before anyone else will, and how consistency matters more than virality. Matty shares his Five Rules for Making Your Own Show , including why you should only cook things you love or hate, why working with friends changes everything, and why originality still matters in a world built on algorithms and imitation. There’s something deeply inspiring about Matty’s journey because none of it feels manufactured. It feels earned. Watching someone continue to create for years, through rejection, uncertainty, changing platforms, and shifting industries, is a reminder that momentum is built through consistency, not shortcuts. The conversation is really about the value of showing up over and over again, trusting your instincts, and building with people you actually care about. There’s a specific kind of joy that comes from making things with friends, from laughing through the chaos, from figuring it out together in real time. Even when something fails, even when it gets messy, the act of creating is still better than standing still. Making something, anything, is how you find your voice. Photo by Sid Tangerine Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. It is always a good time when I get to sit down with today’s guest, Matty Matheson, whose new season of Just a Dash is out on Netflix right now, along with the fifth season of The Bear coming out on FX and Hulu on June 25th. He’s here today to share his five rules for making your own show. We chat about the importance of working with people you trust, that to get everyone to buy in with what you’re making, you need to... So let’s get into the rules. Getting Started in Video Matty, so good to see you. I love to hear the birds chirping and the sun streaming through in Canada. Thanks for making the time to sit down and chat with me. You’re very welcome. That’s our canary, Waffles, and Waffles is just having a beautiful day it seems. You are no stranger to TV. I’ve seen you cooking across different mediums for such a long time. Not every chef is drawn to that type of pursuit. What made you want to get involved in the first place? Well, great question. The first video I ever made was my cheeseburger video. We made that over 10 years ago now. My era, the beginning of that, when I was 26, 27, 28, if you were on TV, you were a massive star. There wasn’t any middle ground. There wasn’t any content. It wasn’t anything. Some producers at Vice hit me up to see if I wanted to do something. In Canada, we shot a cheeseburger video, and that’s what it was. It’s funny, I look back on that stuff. There’s no persona. There’s no yelling. There’s no anything. It’s just me being funny and talking in my regular voice. I was just drawn to it because they wanted to do something different. It wasn’t some big TV show. It wasn’t a competition show. It wasn’t some thing that was out there that was on some major network. That was what drew me to that, was just hanging out with people that I already hung out with, my friends that worked at Vice. It was still purer then. There was no anything. It wasn’t creating. We just made a cooking video, a how-to video. Finding an On-Camera Voice You had a chance to evolve before this new ecosystem of creators. What do you remember about learning that time and finding your on-camera persona before it became such a commodity to do content? I would do a video every two, three months. What a cadence compared to today. I did that and then I did my pancake video and then I did my get-you-laid lasagna video. It was just like a thing where we made it when we made it. I think I got paid 500 bucks a video at that time too, which was kind of nice. Seems about right. It was more money than I ever made in a two, three hour span of time. It was incredible to get that amount of money when I was that age. It was more money than I ever made. There was no references. Building Just a Dash We shot Just a Dash two years ago. It’s amazing. It took a long time to edit. Tort and his crew, we took a long time finding it. The way that we shoot Just a Dash is we shoot for 10 hours, 12 hours, and then we find everything in the edit. We’re always cooking one dish. There’s all these sub-stories and things and stuff. When we made the season, it wasn’t with Netflix. It wasn’t with anybody. It was still just self-funded with the Canadian Arts grant that we get. We wanted to make something that was a little bit... so this was us putting in a little bit more effort. We had six or seven more people on set. We had costume, we had set deck, a couple producers. I had a little relationship over with Netflix and they were kind of looking for something and I was kind of looking to see if they were down. It was a very easy thing. We showed it to them. They were very excited. It’s a no brainer. And it was funny. I even told them when we first started to meet, I was just like, I pitched you this show like six years ago. I guess they weren’t ready for it. Obviously because of The Bear I got a little more juice. Yeah, I got a little bit of Hollywood juice from that. We get to put something like Just a Dash out there and let that ripple out. I’m glad that you got that juice because the show is great and it’s allowed you to stay in this game for so long, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for making your own show. When I watch this season, there’s just such a levity, such a formed world with the people behind the camera and you in front of it. I just feel that you’re letting us into your home and into your life, which is a big part of your rule number one. Rule #1: Cook Something You Love or Hate Rule number one is cook something that you love or hate because then there’s no middle ground. So you need to have feelings. For the type of content that I make, either I love it or I’m trying to figure it out and I hate it. Then the plane starts crashing and then I have to land the plane every episode. That’s our snake eating its own tail thing that we’re always doing. We’re excited, we get smoked, and then we land the plane. Always cook something that you love or something that you don’t understand. By cooking something you don’t understand, by the end of it, you’ll probably understand it and enjoy it. Rule #2: Work With Friends Creating that space from a production point of view to allow you to cook something that might work or go off the rails is really determined by the people who you work with and the relationships you have, which makes up your rule number two. I love working with friends. Working with friends has given me an incredible life and has allowed us all to continuously work together. Having somebody like that that knows you and knows how to work you. On the first two seasons of Just a Dash we had no producers, no writers, no nothing. Whoever was there that day was there. It was just me, Camera B, Sound Guy, Tor, Michelle, myself. It is a thing of trusting your crew. Believing in your crew. Also having this thing where everyone is level. Everyone is a part of it. Everyone is adding to the cup. That’s the thing that’s the most important. Everyone is on the level. Everyone is a part of this. Everyone is equal. Everyone is doing their thing making this video. Maybe that’s just because I naturally want everyone to have fun and everyone to be hanging out. That’s why my videos just genuinely organically went to this. Oh yeah, what if we just turned the cameras around and it was just all my friends hanging out and we’re just making this video and I’m just the idiot in front of the camera, but the whole show is the 360 of five idiots hanging out about making a thing. Rule #3: Get Everyone Behind You Being able to lead a group of people, having the ability to take a stand and say, no, this is what we’re making, this is what you get, is a fundamental tenant of your rule number three. Rule number three is believing in yourself enough to get everyone behind you. Yeah, I’m always like just get me something to cook. Let’s not overthink it. Get me all the ingredients. If I don’t have all the ingredients that will make it better. But that comes with a lot of trust. You need that trust to be able to communicate how to cook at the same time as be funny, to be present or unpresent, but still keep the train rolling. The reason why I can be so funny or be so ridiculous at times is because the cooking, I’m not thinking about the cooking. I’m never really thinking about the cooking. You know it. I know how to make pasta. I know how to make a cream sauce. Cooking is very funny to me. As long as you understand the foundation, you can do multiple cuisines and multiple things and there’s only certain amount of things you can do. You can fry, you can roast, you can broil, you can boil, you can simmer. Also finding your path throughout the video is part of my journey where I’m like a lot of the times I have an idea what I’m cooking and then I’ll get a feeling or an excitement about something as I’m doing it. And then that can switch a lane really quickly for me. And then we just are going down that path. But for everyone else to be able to go down that path is that freedom. Oh, I’m going to make grilled chicken fajitas. Okay, and I start doing it. I’m like, yo, what if we made a fried chicken sandwich fajita? Hell yeah. Food isn’t different to the journey. It doesn’t really matter what I’m cooking. As I’m finding my happy place, truly, while I’m cooking this thing, I allow the happy place to get turned upside down and set on fire. And then everyone around me is watching and not helping, but that’s part of it. It is a thing knowing that that is what makes everything click, is us understanding our levels of where we’re going. Are we actually getting upset or are we just a little bit upset? I don’t think we’ve ever had to fully take a break or something like that where we go on these emotional voyages. Believing in yourself, knowing that you’re going to finish and finish strong, people will believe in you and that’s consistency. Rule #4: Invest in Yourself On the other side of believing in yourself creatively is the reality of production, what it takes to actually get something off the ground, which usually deals with finances. And sometimes it’s hard to get people to invest in you before you invest in yourself, which makes up your rule number four. Spend all of the money you have on yourself. Exactly. Invest in yourself. Yep. Very low to the bottom of the barrel where I have risked financial risk for my family multiple times to believe in myself and to believe in that the project we’re working on, it will just continue. I didn’t make Just a Dash to sell it at first. I made Just a Dash because I wanted to get Just a Dash . I made the first season of Just a Dash when everyone said no. I had left Vice. I went to LA. I had meetings at every frigging place thinking I had dead set on life. I had It’s Suppertime . I had Munchies . And I was just like, oh. Easy, new show, new me. Yeah, like I’m over here now. And everyone’s like, who the f**k are you? And I was like, oh, okay, cool. Got to the point where I was just like, I’ll pay for myself and start my own YouTube channel. That’s what every single person does. But back then it was like a different thing. I still don’t know how to make content on my phone. Like I meet all these Instagram chefs and people that are making content. I’ve done a couple of collabs and I’m like, you literally just shoot all... Then I’m going to f**k with myself, believe in my friends and believe in the people that I’ve made all these things with. I believe in them. I know that they can make good s**t. I know that I can make good s**t. And I know that people like it. I may not be this valued person to all these networks. The internet, which was my fanbase at that time, enjoyed it and fucked with Just a Dash hard. And as you believed in yourself and as you built out this world, you just continuously go. At the beginning, it was this incredible time of you and your friends making something, doing something, putting it out there. Consistency and Fans It’s all because of the fans. Every day I wake up and I’m so grateful for everybody and everything that’s happened to me. I have spent the last 10 years being very consistent with output on a lot of different fronts. I’ve given a lot of myself to a lot of videos and things all around the world. I’ve gotten that back, that reciprocal, and I think it is a beautiful thing. Being able to be in the game for 10 years, making all these videos and work with so many people... Rule #5: Be Yourself Your fifth and final rule reminds anyone who wants to make their own show to keep this point of view when you’re creating something for yourself. Rule number five, try to be yourself. You are a hundred percent original. Everyone now wants originality, authentic, whatever authentic means anymore. You are original. Don’t try to be me. Don’t try to be something. When I was making Dead Set On Life , I was like, I don’t want to watch Anthony Bourdain shows. Still to this day, I’ve only seen two episodes of anything Bourdain’s ever done. I’ve read all of his books multiple times. I love his books. Of course. But I was just like, if I’m going to be making this stuff, I want to put the blinders on. Now it’s even more difficult because everyone is in their own echo chamber. “Oh, I saw you do this recipe so I’m going to do the same recipe.” Being viral sucks so bad. It’s so whack because I’ve never really been viral. It’s just been this continuous... I’m not at home whipping up f*****g chorizo lasagnas, shrimp cocktails with a sauce from scratch. No, f**k that. Cocktail sauce from scratch is disgusting. I even talked about that on Just a Dash . It was like people that put lemon zest in cocktail sauce. It was like you guys are maniacal. Get out of here. What are you doing? It’s ketchup and horseradish. Maybe Tabasco. Stop it. Closing Matty, I really appreciate not just the show, but you showing people who actually want to get out there and still make something original and authentic how to do it. If people want to watch Just a Dash or see the other things that you’re working on, where can they go? How can they see what you’re up to? Just a Dash is on YouTube still, bi-weekly, new cooking something on YouTube. You can watch all three seasons of Just a Dash on Netflix. You can get my cookbooks wherever you can get cookbooks, I feel. Matty, so good to see you. Congrats on everything. I really do love this show. Hopefully we’ll run into each other somewhere in the world soon. Hey, I’ll see you when I see you buddy. It’s nice to see you right now. It really is. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

There’s a certain type of person who dreams about opening a restaurant in Paris. Then there’s the type of person who actually does it. On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life , I sit down with Mashama Bailey and Johno Morisano of The Grey and L’Arrêt to talk about what it really takes to open a restaurant in one of the most romanticized, bureaucratic, intimidating, and food-obsessed cities in the world. They share their Five Rules for Opening a Restaurant in Paris . We get into neighborhood politics, learning enough French to survive a conversation, battling condemned hood systems, and why your lawyer might become the most important person in your phone. It’s a conversation about hospitality, identity, stubbornness, and understanding exactly who you are before trying to introduce yourself to Paris. What I love about this conversation is how open they are about all of it. There’s no mythology here. No pretending the process was glamorous. They talk honestly about the stress, the delays, the absurdity of getting yelled at over ventilation systems, and the emotional weight of trying to earn trust in a city that takes food very seriously. But there’s also so much laughter throughout the conversation. The kind that only comes from people who survived something difficult together and can now look back at the chaos with perspective. You can hear how much they love restaurants, how much they respect Paris, and how even in the hardest moments they never lost sight of why they wanted to do this in the first place. Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Transcript Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, my guests join me from all corners of the world, Mashama Bailey and Johno Morisano, whose company, Gray Spaces, made its mark with The Grey in Savannah. Now, their new restaurant, L’Arrêt in Paris, has made a splash in the city. They join me today to chat about their Five Rules for Opening a Restaurant in Paris. They talk about the importance of practicing your conversational French, how to integrate yourself into the neighborhood, and why you should always have a good lawyer on standby. Even if you aren’t planning on opening your own little bistro in Paris, it’s a great conversation for anyone looking to start their own restaurant and understand the mindset you need to succeed. So let’s get into the rules. Opening Thoughts Thank you for crossing continents to be with me today. So great to have you on the show. Happy to be here. Thanks for waking up at the crack of dawn to do it. I got two young kids. I was up hours before we chatted. When the opportunity came to open L’Arrêt in Paris, what were your thoughts about the culinary connection between Savannah and the through lines of both cities? I thought in the beginning, you know what? We’re going to France. Pack our bags. Let’s go, let’s go, let’s do what we’re gonna do. Really trying to figure out what food the neighborhood wanted to do. I think we got caught up in the idea of it all, at least I did, and not really hunkered down and realized, oh wait, we’ve been doing this for 12 years and we should absolutely bring some food from Savannah to France. Also not realizing how nuanced our food is in Savannah and how it doesn’t always read as Southern. When you’re in Savannah, it feels very Southern. It eats very Southern. But when you’re in France, they need the hits. They need the things that overtly reflect Southern cuisine so they can understand what you’re doing because it’s such a melting pot here. Southern food and Black American food is so entrenched in African ingredients that it almost reads African before it reads Southern. That’s how we started off. And now we’re really embracing the fact that we’re coming from Savannah, we’re coming from the South, and we’re cooking grits and using cornmeal, lima beans, all these really delicious Southern ingredients. We’re braising and we’re frying and we’re putting it on a plate. And I think they’re really like, “Oh, okay, I understand what this restaurant is now.” But I think before, showing up as The Grey, it was a little confusing because we weren’t overtly Southern. Becoming Part of the Neighborhood For anyone who’s spent time in Paris and gotten to know Parisians, it really is all about neighborhoods and local communities. How did you integrate yourself with the people there beyond the food, showing that you really wanted to be their neighborhood spot? The Seventh Arrondissement is a place where I have been going with my wife for 30 years. I love that. We actually found L’Arrêt because it was just a spot that I frequented called Les Parisiens. I knew the owner of that place and I know the guy who runs a little cafe around the corner, and I got to know some of the people in the neighborhood. So when we did buy L’Arrêt, we did a lot of outreach to the neighbors. Here we are, these folks from New York City and Savannah coming into a very, very old and independent neighborhood in Paris. We would set up at our friend’s cafe around the corner. We would invite the people who lived in the neighborhood, who worked in the neighborhood, and we talked to them about the plans for the restaurant. We did a lot of outreach to the building, the folks who lived in the building we’re in. We invited everybody to come hear the planning and we had to go in front of the co-op, the HOA. We were successful in some of it and we weren’t very successful at all with the building, in that they still wanted to put us through the ringer to get approvals. Which we ultimately got. It just took two years and a lot of lawyers and a lot of money. Integrating yourself into the neighborhood, serving the community, is so great. On the flip side, getting to know an area of Paris as intimately as you are, you find your own spots. What are some of the local institutions that you’ve made yourself a regular at as a way to show that you want to be a part of the neighborhood? Rosarito Heap on Boulevard Saint-Germain. I can walk in there and they’re like, “Oh, madame.” Also, there’s an Indian restaurant right around the corner from L’Arrêt. It’s called Ravi’s and they’re great there. It’s super small, quiet, only lit by candlelight. The food is really solid and it’s a great place to let your hair down and have a good meal. La Flores is my local cafe on Rue du Bac, but I’ll go to Les Ambassades. Le Fontenoir is the little cafe on Rue du Bac. I’ve known Alex, who owns that place, for 20 years. Lao Tzu, Chinese restaurant, New York City style. He would kill me if I said that because I told him once that Wo Hop is one of my favorite places. He’s like, “This is not Wo Hop.” It’s funny, we were sitting in La Flores one night having a drink. I don’t even know if we were open yet. The waiter brought us over two glasses of wine and we said, “Oh no, we just came for one.” And he said, “No, the people behind you want to buy you a glass of wine.” They were just restaurant owners. She owns a restaurant right up the street and he owns a restaurant over by Tour Montparnasse. They just recognized us and bought us a drink. I’m now super friendly with both of them. Restaurants are communal in all cities and there’s camaraderie. You just gotta make the rounds and say hi to everybody. When you become a regular at a restaurant, that’s the best thing about it. They cater to each individual and how they want to experience that space. So few people have been able to come from outside of France and open a spot that has regulars and feels like part of the city, which is why I’m so excited to talk to you about your Five Rules for Opening a Restaurant in Paris. Rule #1: Practice Your French If you’ve never been, especially when you go to a city like Paris, the second you start attempting to speak the native language, they will switch to English for you immediately. But that doesn’t mean, look, if you’re there for a week that’s one thing. But if you’re setting up shop, it’s important to do as Parisians do, which is a big part of your Rule Number One: Practice your French. I have been trying to learn French since high school, so I think it just may not be in the cards for me. I will continue to try. I think I just have this huge intimidation factor when it comes to French. Being able to be cordial is the most important thing. You don’t have to speak it well. You just have to be able to say hello, introduce yourself, ask someone how they’re doing because that’s just table stakes in France. “Bonjour” is really like, hello, have a good day. Then it’s followed by “comment ça va?” And it could be a stranger on the street. You’re literally just saying, “Hello, how are you? I see you. How are you doing?” That’s the basis. Then everything else depends on how much they want to help you out. It depends on how fast they talk or how slow they’re willing to talk and bring you along. But they’re very interested in immersing you into their culture. Learning the language becomes easier. Rule #2: Have a Sense of Humor You have to have a sense of humor about it. For a lot of situations and in a lot of instances, it’s just not funny. But you have to be able to see the humanity in a situation. Culturally, everyone here is so different from Americans. So you do have to approach it with a sense of, I can’t take myself too seriously. The folks here, they work to live. They don’t live to work. That’s a sensibility that is nice to adapt, especially for people like Johno and myself where you kind of have to slow down a little bit, enjoy yourself a little bit, laugh at yourself a little bit in order to get through the things that are really tough, like not being able to open up a restaurant for a year and a half. It wasn’t very funny, but now we can find moments in those times that were humorous and we can let it go. We don’t have to drag it along with us. For me, this is a dream come true. Having a neighborhood spot in Paris is something I’ve dreamed about since I got in the restaurant business. You have to keep your head above the weeds and realize that even though it was f*****g hard, it’s great. Rule #3: Know Who You Are Having gone through all of the steps, no shortcuts, convincing the building, convincing the neighborhood, convincing the courts, you have to have a firm backbone, a clear idea of who you are and what you want to be, which is a core value of your Rule Number Three. It was a lot of pressure. We’re going to one of the greatest food cities in the world. How are we going to show up? You can’t forget the North Star. Southern food is on the move. We’re taking Southern food to places where Black Americans found refuge over the course of the 20th century, Black American creatives. We’re taking food that started where the Great Migration and all of the roots of food and culture came out of the South. We just decided that’s who we are. That’s what we’re doing. We’re bringing Southern food to a city that has provided refuge for people that wanted to express themselves for a really long time. And I think that’s when the epiphany happened. Rule #4: Understand the Infrastructure It’s one thing to have those epiphanies. It’s one thing to have the right attitude. But for anyone who’s ever opened up a restaurant, there is the physical nature of having a running kitchen. Knowing how to build one in America is different than any other country. And once you get into their rules, it’s a completely different ballgame, which makes up your Rule Number Four. Make sure that the hood system hasn’t been condemned by the city of Paris. The space has been a working restaurant, everybody says in the neighborhood, for 100 years. I don’t know if that’s true or not true, but the last time the restaurant was renovated was in 1970. The one thing we had to do when we bought the restaurant, the only cooking implement was a four-top range with a small oven in it. We gutted the restaurant. When we gutted the restaurant, we actually did a preservation project. For example, the comptoir, the cafe counter, our contractors removed the marble facade, which is so Brady Bunch 1970s that you could never replicate it again. We put it back on the new comptoir that is structurally sound. We did very similar things at The Grey. But the extraction pipe that vented the hood goes up through the core of the building to the roof. It’s like a pipe that’s maybe two inches in diameter. When the city came and inspected it, they were like, “Oh, you can never use that.” And we’re like, “Okay, what do you want us to do?” They said, “Just run a new modern hood under the full platform, the drop ceiling, and you can run it out the bike room here into the courtyard and go up the side of the building and vent the hood.” Well, the neighbors thought that was the worst idea. They literally picketed in the street. They literally tried to use that as a way to prevent us from reopening a restaurant. Every Parisian loves food and loves restaurants. They just don’t want them in their building. We got in a big battle over the hood system and we will never make that mistake again. Everybody in Paris has had a battle over the hood system, frankly. It’s a rite of passage. You don’t want to obviously overrun any of the neighbors, but at some point you go, you know what? We’ve checked all the boxes. We’ve done everything right. Rule #5: Have a Good Lawyer on Standby Your fifth and final rule deals with this one person you have on speed dial to make sure that you can open the doors. What’s your Rule Number Five? Have a good lawyer on standby. And for anyone who wants to open a restaurant in Paris, her name is Rebecca Cohen. Give her all the praise. I will send you her number. And Olivier, more of our corporate guy. The French love a battle, right? They love a battle. Do they respect you more if you beat them in battle? Duh. Honestly, that’s a really good question. For the most part, yes. But Madame Cotina, who I love in the building, I’m very kind to her. She hates me with a passion post-battle. For the most part, you earn respect, but you could just as easily be dead to them and they not have a problem. I like that binary option. I’m going to eat at your restaurant every day or you’re dead to me. Closing If people want to stop by L’Arrêt or if they’re in Savannah and want to go by The Grey, or just see what you two are up to, where you are in the world, what’s the best place for them to check you two out? Websites for both restaurants. 36 Rue de l’Université in Paris and downtown Savannah, Georgia. Next time I’m in either city, I’m going to swing in. Congratulations to you both. Good luck with the next six months of operation. I can’t wait to see what you continue to build. Thank you. Thank you so much. We really appreciate you taking the time for us. Really great, thanks Darin. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Shaheen Ghazali , the chef and owner of Kurrypinch , joins Five Rules for the Good Life to share his Five Rules for Getting to Know South Asian Cuisine . Born in Pakistan, raised in Sri Lanka, and shaped by years traveling the world as a marine cadet with his father, Shaheen approaches food through the lens of curiosity, evolution, and connection. This conversation goes far beyond the idea of “authenticity” and digs into how cuisines borrow, adapt, and grow over generations. From why spice doesn’t always mean heat to how curry is often misunderstood in the West, Shaheen breaks down the common language that exists across cultures and why understanding food means looking deeper than labels. What I love most about Shaheen’s approach is that he talks about food the way some people talk about music, art, or family history. There’s a calm confidence in the way he explains flavor, balance, and tradition without turning any of it into dogma. He understands that food is alive. It changes with migration, memory, trade, and circumstance. Sitting with him, you realize he’s less interested in defending a cuisine than inviting people into it. The best meals do that. They lower your guard, tell you a story, and make the unfamiliar feel personal. Shaheen cooks and speaks from that exact place. Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today I’m joined by Shaheen Ghazaly, the chef and owner of Kurrypinch , a Sri Lankan restaurant here in Los Angeles. He shares his five rules for getting to know South Asian cuisine. It’s about the fundamental understanding that food and cuisine is always evolving, that spice doesn’t always mean spicy, and that balance is the key ingredient to any successful meal. It is an incredibly philosophical conversation about cooking and global cuisine, and how anyone out there who wants to know more about what they’re eating should dive a little deeper. So let’s get into the rules. Shaheen, so nice to meet you. Thank you for stepping away from the very busy Curry Pint to sit down and chat with me for the show. Thank you for having me. You were born in Pakistan, raised in Sri Lanka, and spent a large part of your early life traveling with your father. How did that shape your outlook on food? Since I was a kid, my mom is a Pakistani, my dad is a Sri Lankan. When my mom passed away, we moved to Sri Lanka. My dad was taken care of, and since he was traveling, he taught us how to take care of ourselves by having limited ingredients at home to make food. Breakfast, whatever it’s available. That made me be creative and come up with my own way of food. Since I was 10 years old, I fell in love with food, not only by looking at my aunt cook, I just fell in love with it. We were not raised like most Sri Lankans. They go with the spices like heat, but we grew up having flavored and not too much heat going on. That deep love of food, is that what brought you to the United States to open a restaurant? No, the cooking was a hobby. I always enjoyed it. After I finished my college and everything, I started traveling with my dad. He was a captain in a ship. I joined the ship with him as a Marine Cadet officer and then I traveled the world. When we were growing up, we were limited to certain things or knowledge. For example, fish cutlets, that’s a Sri Lankan dish. But when I started traveling, then I learned it’s just a term that we use when it comes to the technique, the method. The ingredients are all very, very similar. This made me dig deep into culture and food. When I said traveling, I have been to many countries. Whenever we touched down at a port, my first thing would be to go and try many different cuisines. Their traditional food. So I wanted to bring, because Sri Lankan food is not that popular in LA, I just wanted to introduce our cuisine in a term people would understand. At the end of the day, the ingredients and the technique remained true to our culture, our background, and things like that. Was there a moment when you realized that enough people in LA, or the people who kept coming back to the restaurant, really understood what you were cooking and learned about the Sri Lankan food and the South Asian food you were serving? Not all of them. Sure. I have had so many times, “Oh, this is not authentic.” I’m like, there’s no such thing as authentic. Sure. Because in Sri Lanka, there are many regions, many parts, many cultures. We may use the same spices in a different manner. For instance, we have a dish called Jaffna prawn curry. The reason we call it Jaffna, it’s a part of Sri Lanka, and they are more influenced by South Indian food. Most of the food that we have or currently use is influenced by South Indian food. We try our level best with all the new guests who come to our restaurant to give them a brief background about certain food because the terms of curry or curry, they’re scared because I don’t know what they have in their mind, but when you mention curry they just go bongas. Being such a lifelong devotee to food and admirer of cuisine culture, and having restaurants of your own, I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for getting to know South Asian cuisine. 1) Know that food is always evolving. There’s been a large movement in the United States specifically about third culture cuisine. When people call food authentic, they’re usually talking about just one point of a cuisine’s long story. People have traded spices, ingredients, and cooking ideas across the continent. When people visit our restaurants, especially South Asians, they might say this is not authentic Sri Lankan or Indian food, but every culture, city, and region has its own. Having these recipes evolve means that certain words that people might be afraid of, those definitions change as well. 2) Spice doesn’t always mean spicy. And one of the key elements, the heat of a dish and how that’s evolved, makes up your rule number two. Spices are used for aroma, depth, and balance, not just for the heat. My way of cooking, or what I have learned... Agreeing on these terms or agreeing on these... 3) Not every curry is a sauce. The approach to what goes into a dish or what even makes up a dish is something that you need to find a common language on, especially when you’re running a restaurant and explaining how that might differ in what you’re serving. Not everyone is going to align with what you say, especially as you strike out to define your own take on the cuisine, which is a fundamental of your rule number three. All the curries, they aren’t sauces. The word curry describes many, many different dishes. Some curries are rich and saucy, while others are dry, stir-fried, or just lightly spiced. Curry is really a blend of spices shaped by each culture. 4) Cuisines often share the same ideas. Once you get into these cuisines, as you saw in your travel across the world, a lot of the time what makes up a dish from culture to culture has more in common than differences, which makes up your rule number four. During my travel, people in different cultures often cook with the same idea using the local ingredient. For example, biryanis, spice, cheese, and a dish like jambalaya is similar. Flatbread, like roti, is similar to tortilla. The similarities show that food brings culture together more than it separates them. One ingredient used in a different form. At the end of the day, it’s just one word. The idea, the concept, everything is the same, and the way of making is maybe a little bit different. If you use those ingredients and spices and everything, the end result would be pretty much the same flavorful. 5) Balance is what makes a meal. That end result can be generalized by people who don’t understand a specific cuisine, but your fifth and final rule talks about this idea of bringing harmony to any dish to fit the right situation. What’s your rule number five? The balance is... A great dish relies on a few key elements working together in balance. I would say flavor balance, texture, aroma, freshness and ingredients, techniques, harmony, the story behind the dish. All these come together. People do get scared of it. I would say, don’t be. You try many things in your life. Just try different cuisine. The one thing that we follow at Curry Pinch is that we cook our meal as we cook for our loved ones. I love that. We don’t provide unhealthy food or give it to our family members. That’s the same concept I have when it comes to our guests. Good for you, good for your health. Thank you so much for sharing your Five Rules. If people want to come by Curry Pinch or see some of the food you’re cooking, where can they go? Walk-ins are always welcome. They can visit our website at www.kurrypinch.com . They can reserve through Resy. We would recommend doing a reservation. There are times we are fully booked. And yeah, for everyone listening, that’s Curry with a K. Shaheen, thank you so much. Congrats on everything and looking forward to swinging in very soon for a bite. Thank you very much. You’re always welcome. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life , I sit down with Julianne Fraser, founder and CEO of Dialogue New York , to talk about what it actually takes to protect your creativity in a world that’s trying to flatten it. We get into the tension between algorithms and originality, why setting boundaries with social media isn’t optional anymore, and how carving out real time for yourself can unlock better ideas than any scroll ever will. Julianne shares her Five Rules for Cultivating Creativity , from building guardrails around your digital life to creating space for “creative mornings” to trusting your own taste instead of chasing trends. It’s a conversation about getting back to yourself, doing the work offline, and making sure your ideas still feel like yours. What I appreciate most about this conversation is how practical it is. There’s no fantasy version of creativity here. It’s about being intentional with your time, attention, and input. It’s about knowing when to step away, when to go outside, when to talk to people, and when to sit alone with a notebook to actually think. That balance is hard to find, especially when everything online is designed to pull you back in, but it’s the difference between reacting to the world and shaping your own point of view. Once you start to feel that shift, even in small ways, it changes how you show up in your work and in your life. My latest profile for Fine Dining Lovers is on Chef Brad Alan Mathews, the chef and co-owner of Bar Le Cotê in Los Olivos, CA. He shares his lifelong love of food and music, and his journey to sobriety. Thank you to Paul Feinstein for his guidance and support with this piece. For anyone in the industry struggling with substances or looking for options for a different approach to a work/life balance, Ben’s Friends is a good place to start. INTRODUCTION Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with Julianne Fraser , the founder and CEO of Dialogue New York , a digital media agency. She shares her Five Rules for Cultivating Creativity . She talks about the irony of her process in setting social media guardrails, carving out time in anyone’s busy schedule for creative mornings, and that by following feelings and not trends will lead you to your best ideas. It’s a great conversation for anyone who’s looking to add more creativity into their life and to ground themselves with daily practices of making space to allow for new ideas. So let’s get into the rules. OPENING CONVERSATION Julianne, it is so nice to meet you. So great to see someone coming all the way to Brooklyn. I miss my hometown. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Excited to chat. I’m a child of the 80s and 90s. I still remember the DIY punk era of the hard line between creativity and brands. Today’s generation seems not to care about that. Why has creativity come to be such a commodity? Why do you think that shift happened? I think it’s been a slow erosion of creativity over time. I’ve been in my career for 15 years in the digital space. Little by little, the way that social media has grown and the power of the algorithm has just kind of shrunk original creativity over time. This year, in the last five years with AI, it’s compounding a really frightening degree. It’s just the nature of technology and innovation. What’s interesting is as we’re seeing it shrivel away in many facets of social media, I think people are really championing it. Such desire to get back to nostalgic, old ways of analog. I’m hoping for like a renaissance. I’m hopeful that people will go back to kind of old-fashioned ways of sparking their creativity. IAN SCHRAGER & HOSPITALITY INSPIRATION Looking backwards at people who might be inspirations for that spark, you worked with Ian Schrager, someone who turned the idea of going to a hotel into a story and experience. What did you take away from your time with him? That was my most inspiring brand I’ve ever worked with in my career. What he did with the hospitality industry in the 80s, first with Morgan’s Hotel Group, really just kind of revolutionized the notion of a lobby as a space of socialization and inspiration. Not only did he flip the way that people interacted with hotels, every single minute detail of his hotels brought to life this spirit. He has these guardian angels in the hallways at Hudson Hotel that look over his guests, or every single pen on every single property was black. Just like really old school rules of brand identity that led to these experiences that you cannot replicate, and so many hotel brands try. From a marketer, I joined really early on in my career. It was just unbelievable gold to work with, to be able to leverage all of that storytelling. BUILDING DIALOGUE Storytelling and learning how to work with brands and to present them to people led you to being the founder of Dialogue, your digital brand marketing consulting agency. What unique offering did you want to bring to the marketplace that you weren’t seeing or that you felt there was a space to make a new name for yourself? When I started my company, I had this core belief of what it takes to build community and a network of creative people. The word influencer can have so many different facets. The way we approach it can be a viral TikTok sensation, but also someone who has 10,000. What I found really interesting is that our strategy and our approach has never shifted from day one. I think that’s the fundamentals of building relationships and human connection at scale, but never impacting the real human connection with these partners and also the creative campaigns that we’re concepting. What I find most exciting this year specifically of what I’m working on with Dialogue is just how to strike that balance between being able to touch with more brands while still doing the most authentic, real relationship building, really creative narrative driving, and never sacrificing that. Preaching to the choir. I absolutely love it. And I love that approach. The fact that you’re offering a take that both understands that we are dealing with the absolute shift in the way that we are creating, but also staying true to the core tenant, which is storytelling, which is why I’m so excited for you to be sharing your five rules for cultivating creativity. RULE #1: ESTABLISH SOCIAL MEDIA GUARDRAILS And in a world where we are in this post slop never ending stream of content, it’s easy for your brain to just go absolutely on the fritz while you doom scroll. Your first rule talks about the importance of setting up some boundaries when you go hunting for inspiration across different social channels. What’s your rule number one? It’s not lost to me the irony that I own a digital marketing agency and my first rule is establish social media guardrails. I love it. I bring this to my team. I believe in this wholeheartedly. Social media is beautiful and inspiring and incredible. And I even think from my personal creative, when I’m really into interior design or cooking, I’m finding the most incredible artisans in Rotterdam to build custom shelves that I never would have discovered if not through Pinterest or Instagram or whatnot. There are these really beautiful platforms to find inspiration, but if you’re not conscious in how you’re engaging with them, it just completely numbs your brains. I have two young daughters. When I get home, I put my phone in this container. I have to be so physical to put it behind two physical doors. I’m so intentional because if that doesn’t happen, these devices are designed for addictions. At night, I’m putting my phone on airplane mode at nine o’clock. I’m plugging it in outside of my bedroom so I’m not shifting to that. I’ve found over the years I have to be really strict. So creating whatever those guardrails are that best suit you, that’s rule number one in my mind. Once you create those guardrails and you get off your phone, you’ll start to realize that you have an extra 15, 30, 40 minutes of the day that you thought you were so busy that you cut things out like leaving your desk or, as someone like me, leaving your home. RULE #2: FOSTER YOUR “WEAK TIES” Your second rule talks about the importance of reestablishing those routines that get you out into the world. What’s your rule number two? As convenience has, and you know this as a New Yorker, you literally can get anything at any time in the city. Uber Eats, you no longer are going to pick up your Indian takeout down the street. We’re skipping past the cashier at Whole Foods and we’re going straight to the checkout computers. We’re texting friends instead of calling and speaking to them. And so I think the more and more and more convenience is prioritized, we’re cutting out this notion of weak ties. Weak ties aren’t friends. They’re not coworkers. They’re not even acquaintances. They’re just people that you’ll bump into in a day, like the barista at your cafe or like the front desk at your gym, whatever it might be. And it’s really the fabric of a lot of our creativity and inspiration and speaking to people. And I really try to slow down and chit chat with the woman who drops off our mail. She’s wonderful, and it’s those little mini interactions that are really getting us outside of our bubble and off our phones and sparking things that we might not think of or know. RULE #3: CREATE SPACE WITH CREATIVE MORNINGS Setting up your day for success is such an important part of really getting things done. Creating the space to actually create is a core tenet of rule number three. I’ve instilled what I call creative mornings for my team of 10. I love it. We’ve done this for five, six years. And I really, really believe in the power of it, not only for my team’s creative output, but from all of our personal satisfaction. It’s a full morning out of the month where all of us take three hours on a Tuesday morning. They can do whatever will inspire them creatively as long as they’re off their phones and their computers. They can go to a morning matinee movie, they can browse shops in West Village. That is the point. Because I’ve found the most creative impactful business decisions have come out of those mornings by myself with a piece of paper just working through something I’ve been blocked on that I haven’t had the mental space to actually think about. More emphasis on the importance of all of my team fostering our offline influence, our offline lifestyles, creating that work-life balance so that we have the space to be doing creative work. Because if not, everything will become the exact same in the digital marketing world. How we differentiate ourselves is through our creative minds and our personal experiences offline. Those experiences offline cannot be underestimated from the importance of fueling your own creativity. RULE #4: CURATE YOUR CULTURAL PALETTE I many times have tried to go outside the things that I know that I like and then feel that I’ve wasted time in hunting for new inspiration. But I know that I still need to look for new things that are going to inspire me. Your fourth rule talks about how understanding what you like and what’s on your radar is a good way to find something new to inspire you. It’s about curating your cultural palette. And I read this in Rick Rubin’s book a couple years ago. Everybody’s palette is going to be different. We don’t all need to be doing the same. And I think that also is such a trap in social media where people are showcasing how they’re getting inspired and just someone copies another influencer’s exact date. I think it has to be so personalized to find what it is that makes your heart sing. I’m obsessed with cooking and food. It just makes me so happy. Making sure that I’m carving out time offline where I’m testing recipes or I’m going to a market or I’m going to a new restaurant. The more that I’m expanding that cultural palette of mine, not only from a business perspective, it makes me tenfold a better consultant to a food brand, to a fashion brand. All of that taste and experience funnels into our work. But also just from a personal satisfaction standpoint, I really can feel these moments where I’m in my creative flow and I’m learning. I really find moments where I’m learning still. There’s curiosity behind creativity. We have to continue to learn and discover new things as part of this. RULE #5: FOLLOW FEELINGS, NOT TRENDS Discovering those new things and knowing what to follow, your fifth and final rule talks about, for lack of a better word, your gut, refining that and knowing when to listen to it when something piques your interest. What’s your rule number five? It’s following your feelings and not trends. The power of these algorithms, it’s becoming so homogenous, it’s starting to freak me out. Everyone’s hair and makeup looks the same. Everyone’s plating their food the same way. Everyone is dressing like Carolyn Bessette because of Love Story the TV show and backward hats and polos for all the boys. Everyone’s homes are identical with boucle. I love all those styles, of course. The trends are amplified tenfold because of social media. And so I’m really trying to spark ways to follow what makes my heart sing rather than what I’m seeing. When I was designing my daughter’s room, I made a conscious effort to 100% pull inspiration from analog sources. So I purposely did not be on social media. It’s led to this really funky, weird universe of fuchsia pink and cherry red that is so unique that I’ve never seen anywhere. And I’m so excited for her to live in that universe of inspiration and creativity. But I never would have thought of that because if you go in Pinterest and you do Arch Digest, Child’s Nursery, you’re going to get a standard rulebook to follow and it’ll be beautiful, but it won’t make your heart sing. So I really look for those moments and carve out ways to really feel the feelings of creativity beyond just the trend. CLOSING I deeply appreciate you sharing those feelings and the approach. If people want to see what you’re up to or what Dialogue is up to, where can they go, how can they follow along? Best to follow along Julianne Fraser on Instagram, Dialogue NYC on Instagram as well. We’re going to be going through a full brand universe refresh. Those would be the best spots, I’d say. Congratulations on everything. I look forward to seeing what comes next, and hopefully next time I’m back in Brooklyn, we can grab a coffee. I would love that. Thank you. This is so fun. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

In this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life , I head to the Hudson Valley to hang out with food writer, photographer, gardener, forager, and fermenter Peter Barrett . He shares his Five Rules for Nurturing a Real Cooking Practice . We talk about why growing even one herb on a windowsill can change the way you think about food, why practice matters more than perfection, how to stop hiding behind cookbooks, and why taking a food Sabbath can make the rest of your week easier. It’s a conversation about cooking with intention, but also about building a life that feels more connected, more grounded, and a little less performative. The best cooking habits are the ones that fit your actual life, not the fantasy version of it. Not everyone is going to mill flour, tend a massive garden, or spend Sunday making twelve jars of pickles, and that’s fine. Sometimes the win is roasting one chicken, growing basil in a pot, or learning three meals you can make without thinking. The point is not to turn your kitchen into a stage set for Instagram, it’s to create a rhythm that supports you. Cooking should lower the temperature of your life, not raise it. It should make your week easier, your table fuller, and your relationship to food more personal. The goal is not perfection. It’s finding a way of feeding yourself that feels sustainable, satisfying, and yours. Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I head up to the Hudson Valley to sit down with food writer, photographer, gardener, forager, and fermenter, Peter Barrett, who’s here to share his 5 Rules for Nurturing a Real Cooking Practice. He talks about how growing just one thing can change your perspective on life, that there is no excuse for giving up on yourself in the kitchen without loads of practice, and that being gentle on yourself when it comes to cooking is a real recipe for success. This is a great interview for anyone who’s looking to get started in the kitchen or for anyone who’s hit a lull and looking to find some new inspiration. So let’s get into the rules. Peter’s Journey Peter, so good to see you. I can’t believe it’s already been a few months. Thanks for making time for the show. That’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me. You’ve spent decades growing and foraging and preserving, cooking as much of your own food as possible. What drives you to do this? I was in the artwork. I moved up to the Hudson Valley from Brooklyn 20 years ago now. I put in a garden. It was one of the first things I did. My grandfather had taught me to make pickles when I was a little kid because he was from Poland. And when he grew up, that was a survival strategy. That had nothing to do with hipsters or yuppies or anything. It was staying alive through a long, hard winter. I just got more and more into the growing and the cooking and the fermenting. And I started to learn about mushrooms and other wild edible things. I started writing a blog just as a sort of journal to keep track of my kitchen exploits. And then over the course of the ensuing years, I just did more and more of that. I got one magazine gig, then another magazine gig. I’m working on a book with Dominique Crenn right now. We’re supposed to go to France next month. So it just sort of morphed. As the art tapered off, the food thing sort of rose to meet it. Cooking Across Countries You’ve cooked a lot in America, in the Hudson Valley, and you’ve been able to travel to Italy and go into France with Dominique Crenn. Country to country, do you find a difference in this type of approach of growing and preserving and really understanding the food that you eat? It’s simplistic, but I think places that have winter have different fermentation cultures than places that don’t. You can’t f**k around with the absence of food when the ground is frozen, of course. If you think about Korea and Northern Europe, Eastern Europe, the pickle game is strong, and the pickle game is strong because they had to. There’s what they call sottoglio in Italian, which is where they preserve things under oil, or sottaccetto, which is in jars of vinegar. You wander around in most parts of Italy, south of Alto Adige, and everyone has a garden that’s more or less year-round. It’s a different approach to preservation. It’s less mandatory and baked into the cuisine, if that makes any sense. Why Sharing Matters One of the things I’ve loved about your writing and your storytelling is that you really want to share this knowledge with people across the world and people who want to get into this type of practice themselves. Why is that so important to you to share this knowledge and to teach people that they can get started, even if it seems daunting at first? Honestly, because I’m sitting here right now talking to you on the basis of my self-guided passion. I am driven to learn about food because I love it, because it fascinates me, whether it’s wild food, domestic food, different processes, transforming it with microbes or other preservation methods. My kitchen has now taken the place of my studio. It feels the way my studio used to when I was a painter. It’s just incredibly exciting to me. It’s fun. Food intersects with every other area of human endeavor. What’s your specialty? What’s your aptitude? What’s your passion? Food intersects with it. And so there’s always a way to reach people by relating via food. And I, because I’m a self-taught home cook, I can meet people where they are because I don’t speak. I mean, I speak tweezer, but I do not use tweezer, if you know what I’m saying. Rule One: Grow Something That democratic approach, that self-starting nature of learning to cook, the fact that you didn’t go to culinary school is so common among so many people who love food today, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for nurturing a real cooking practice. It’s easy to look at Instagram and see these gorgeous gardens and these well manicured plots, and it can be daunting to even get started. And your first rule talks about the idea of just making something happen with your own hands. What’s your rule number one? Rule number one is grow something. I have a ridiculously big garden. But if you go to the very far other end of the spectrum, you have a sunny windowsill. Grow a pot of chives, grow one thing. Parsley doesn’t need a whole lot of light. If you’ve got a little more space, grow a few pots, even just herbs. If you have a fire escape, you could even upgrade to a little pot of hot peppers or cherry tomatoes, which do well in containers. Nurturing another living thing, even if you don’t have kids, even if you don’t have pets, nurturing a living thing is good for you. I use my lawn the same way. I don’t spray anything because it’s insanity to spray poison on your lawn. Dandelions are one of my favorite examples of wild food that everybody understands, everybody recognizes it, and they’re really f*****g good to eat and good for you. A lot of what I come to share about food is that all these win-win scenarios involving simplicity, frugality, ancient technologies for preservation that also add nutritional value, and they connect you to your food. Connecting you to your food is a way to further your own human connection. So if you can start from nothing to something, grow one more thing than you currently are growing. Rule Two: Practice Getting started is definitely a big first step. Growing the one thing, making bread once, trying out your pickle recipe once is a great way to get involved with your own kitchen and your own life and live with more intent. The problem is that if you fail once or even twice or even five times, there is that desire to give up. Your rule number two talks about the importance about keeping at it. Practice. There’s a reason why doctors and lawyers and yogis, it’s the word practice to describe what they do. Definitionally, it means there’s no destination. It’s only journey. It’s a really important perspective to have when you come to cooking. You can learn a lot in your 70, 80 years as a home cook. There’s a lot to be said for the kind of discipline that puts you in the kitchen every day that you can physically get in there. And there are lots of ways you can make really good food for yourself. Making a commitment to honor yourself and the people whose health and wellbeing you’re at least partially responsible for by showing up in your own kitchen and doing what it takes to supply your kitchen with the ingredients that you need to make healthy, wholesome food. Rule Three: Ween Yourself off Cookbooks The idea of creating this safe space in your kitchen is a really good practice. And my kitchen’s full of cookbooks, which I love to go to and to read and gather for inspiration. Same. But at some point I go, all right, I got to get my nose out of this. I got to cook. I got to make these recipes work for me, which is a big part of your rule number three. Wean yourself off of cookbooks. I think of cookbooks as somewhere between training wheels and sheet music. There’s a lot of knowledge that is assumed in your average cookbook. I think that as a home cook, finding ways to give yourself that knowledge by first and foremost, giving yourself the permission to fail is really the only way to do it. And that goes back to the practice thing, right? If you show up every day, yeah, baking bread is not always easy. When I teach baking, I tell people, if you can commit to baking 10 times in the next two months, you are then forgiven for giving up on it. But you gotta do it 10 times in the next two months. Try to get it into your muscles. Try to get it into your life. Understand the rhythms, in my case, usually sourdough, and how you can factor that in given job and school and other stuff you have to do. You can let it hang out in the fridge for long periods. So it’s very forgiving. Then if you still don’t like it or you can’t make it work, you have my permission to give up. But you can’t just do it once and f**k it up and say, I’m not a baker. Recipes are great. Use a recipe the first time, then try and do it using the force the next time. Or try to substitute something the next time. Understanding that this is going to behave in a similar way because it’s related to that. It has similar properties. Then you’re cooking the way these mythical grandmas that everyone likes to invoke are cooking. Rule Four: Observe a Food Sabbath I found that once I’ve gone on a long stretch of cooking, especially if I’m doing something big for the holidays, I need a break because I get tired or I’ll get lazy and I’ll make a mistake or I’ll do shortcuts. And taking that break and giving yourself the permission to not have to cook everything is a fundamental value of rule number four. You have to be gentle with yourself. We all have to be gentle with ourselves and each other. Take a break, order something. It’s totally fine. My fourth rule, rather, is observe a food Sabbath. That can mean taking a break from cooking, but in my case, honestly, I refer to it as a day where you turn off media and you spend a day or half a day in your kitchen front-loading the labor for a week’s worth of healthy home cooking. Let’s say you roast a chicken. Let’s say you cook a pot of beans. Let’s say you bake a loaf or two of bread. Maybe you make a jar of something pickled that’s local and fresh at the time. And then fill in the blanks, a couple other things maybe. Just simple, make a jar of jam if it’s that season or whatever. And by the end of even just a few hours, this sounds daunting, but these things don’t take a lot of work and a lot of them happen to you concurrently. By the end of that period, you’ve connected with the ingredient. And so you have all this beautiful custom control at a nuanced level. Rule Five: No F*****g AI I love this idea of putting down technology and just getting in the kitchen. Your fifth and final rule talks about ignoring this other rising technological advancement. What’s your rule number five? Rule number five is no f*****g AI. Every day we learn more about how horrendous it is for every living thing. I’m not disputing that maybe it helped you do your taxes this year. You know, fine. Sure. Zygazunt, I don’t give a s**t about that. What I’m talking about is the fact that we know that this tool is using water and electricity that human beings need to live. And it is sucking it up at increasingly voracious and unsustainable rates. We know that relying on it makes us dumber. It causes cognitive impairment. Robots don’t understand food, understand anything about humanity, even though they’ve gotten really good at sounding like they’re conscious and they’re talking to you, they’re not. They’re probability models. They only know what words are most likely to follow the word before it. It’s not a brain. It’s not an entity, it’s an algorithm. It doesn’t like you, it doesn’t care about you, it is not conscious, and it’s trying to kill us all. So keep it the f**k out of your kitchen. Closing I’m gonna leave us on that passionate note. Peter, it is so good to see you and to hear from you. If people want to follow your writings, your adventures, get some intentional cooking tips from you, where can they go? Things on Bread is one of the two newsletters. Flavor Freaks is the other one. And I am cookblog on Instagram. Incredible. Well, thank you, Peter. Appreciate you making the time. Definitely going to be doing some front-loading cooking in the next few weeks so I can have a much easier and more relaxing time in the kitchen during the week. I like it. And Darin, thank you so much. I like your show and I’m thrilled to be part of it. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life , I sit down with Harry Posner and Natalie Dial of Tomat , a restaurant that doesn’t just talk about seasonality, it lives it. We get into what it actually takes to grow your own ingredients while running a restaurant, from the early mistakes to the unexpected wins. They break down their Five Rules for Having Your Own Restaurant Garden , including why experimentation matters more than perfection, how to think realistically about what you can grow, and what it means to truly close the loop on waste. It’s practical, a little obsessive, and exactly the kind of conversation that makes you rethink where your food comes from. There’s something deeply grounding about growing even a small piece of what you eat. It shifts your understanding of time, effort, and value in a way no delivery app ever will. You don’t need a full backyard or a restaurant budget to start. A simple planter box with herbs on a windowsill or balcony is enough. Basil, thyme, parsley, things you actually use. You water it, you cut from it, you watch it come back. That loop, small as it is, changes how you cook and how you think about food. It makes dinner feel earned in the best way. Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Introduction Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with Harry Posner and Natalie Dial, the chef and CEO, respectively, of LA’s Tomat. Located in the Westchester part of the city, Tomat has the distinct pleasure of being here on the LA Times 101 Best Restaurant List and was named one of Esquire’s Best New Restaurants in America. They share their five rules for having your own restaurant garden and talk about the importance of experimenting with the produce you plant, understanding the ratio to reality of what you can grow and consume in the restaurant, and give you the perfect timing to plan for each growing and eating season. It’s a fantastic conversation for anyone who’s fantasized about having their own garden, either at a restaurant or at home, and the desire to grow what you eat. So let’s get into the rules. Meeting the Guests Harry, Natalie, it is so nice to meet you. Thank you for making the time before your impending bundle of joy comes to join us in the world. We’re so glad to be here. Thanks for having us. Thank you very much. The Origin of Tomat It’s easy to say that most chefs or restaurateurs, especially in California, are driven by farm fresh ingredients from the market. You literally named your restaurant with a nod to one of California’s most famous pieces of produce. Why go all in on this concept. It wasn’t even really inspired by the piece of produce itself, other than Harry and I both have that nickname, had it growing up serendipitously, independently of each other, because we turned red in the sun and looked like tomats or tomatoes. However, the official, the initial line before we were like, actually, the fun reason is a way better explanation, was that we are going to grow our own stuff. We’re in California. We’re using as much local farmer’s market produce as possible. And our logo is a slice of tomato with a stem, the seeds. And we’re trying to show you we’re growing, we’re getting the best stuff. That’s why we’re Tamar. Why Grow Your Own Ingredients The dedication to the bit is something that we are very big on here at Five Rules. You guys are also very dedicated to growing your own produce, vegetables. Why is it so important to you to go that early and deep into the process of the ingredients you bring into the restaurant. We work with some of the most amazing farmers, and there are some absolutely amazing people here that really work alongside us, especially when curating a menu. My upbringing, being born in LA, then moving to England, my parents wanted to grow all of their own vegetables. I remember as a kid, we would go around and pick all the loquats and we had a loquat tree where we used to live. And it’s just so much fun. Now that we’ve got kids, you want to indoctrinate them in growing to show you what produce you have and how good it can be. The Value of Growing Even One Thing Restaurateurs these days are faced with so many challenges. Some might not even be able to make it to the farmer’s market while they’re spinning all these different plates in the air. The idea of starting and making your own garden can seem even more daunting than just running a regular restaurant. Why do you think it’s important to grow at least one thing so it can supply at least one thing to a restaurant. It shows you how much effort goes into producing that one thing. I love that. In the grand scheme of things, we have a tiny little plot. You think, okay, how can I get the most benefit. If I have a three feet by three feet plot, okay, I’ll just have things that grow upwards. I’m not going to plant one carrot, but maybe if I plant a bushel of parsley or thyme, that’ll be more than I’ll ever need. So you just think how much effort goes into it and why the prices of certain things are so much at the farmer’s market, and why being in California, we have access to some of the best produce in the world. Rule #1: Experimentation I love how dedicated you are to this practice of growing your own ingredients, but then also encouraging others to do the same, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for having your own restaurant garden. You touched on it a little bit earlier. Having access to LA’s farmer’s markets will give you access to some of the best strawberries, oranges, kale, apples that you may not feel you need to grow because at best you might just match their quality, which frees you up for your rule number one. Our rule number one is experiment experimentation. We wanted to have a little plot that, yes, we’ll have some things that are maybe more staples, like the herbs that we can always continue to pick year round, but we have varieties of citrus, pomegranate, berries that even our favorite berry guy at the farmer’s market is like, oh, I’ve never had that and never grown that. And now I’m being like, oh, well, we grew it here. You can grow it there. Do you want to grow it for us. And he’s like, yeah, let’s do it. And that is actually our Logan berries. That’s incredible. When we moved from London, what blew my mind about the farmer’s markets there is that you could get way hotter chilies than you ever can here, which feels kind of ironic. And then they have this green called a spring green, which is this bizarre mix of a cabbage and a kale that I have never found anywhere near a green as good here. I’ve been obsessed with it since. We have seeds. And one of our farmers is growing it for us. Incredible produce. Rule #2: Grow in Feasible Quantities Once you get a year or two of growing your own produce and actually having the doors open to your restaurant, you’ll have an idea of what people are eating, what they’re drawn to, but then also how much you need to grow so that you are balancing it out with the space you have and what you want to plant and what people are actually going to eat, which is a component of your rule number two. Rule number two, grow in feasible quantities. The garden itself has been in the works, shall we say, for the last five years. Essentially, since we moved out here, there was one year the restaurant was stuck in plan check. We were testing a few different things. We put in a whole row of cucumbers. Sure, we may have grown around 400 pounds of cucumbers that year. That’s a lot of pickles. A lot of pickles and a lot of bribery to neighbors, to friends. I don’t think there are enough people who eat cucumbers in our neighborhood. We can grow a good amount of stuff like herbs. We can use a ton of herbs. Being able to just like, oh, we’re out of herbs. Let’s run to the garden. And pomegranate, we have one pomegranate tree. We get five pomegranates from it this year. It’s still in development. You just need to be aware that certain things can go crazy. If I’m producing 1000 pounds of kale, am I going to eat 1000 pounds of kale. Maybe. Rule #3: Close the Loop That idea of not wanting to waste anything at a restaurant, especially when you’re growing, it does weigh heavily on a lot of conversations these days about creating a system that can support itself, which plays a role in your rule number three. Rule number three is, if you have a garden, use it to try to close the loop on your own waste in whatever house or restaurant you’re in. That was an ethos that we had from the beginning, before we opened, before we even started the concept of the garden or of Tamat. We wanted everything to be as sustainable as possible. And of course that starts with food practices within your kitchen. So of course, all of our food scraps are composted. We have coffee in the morning. All of our grounds go right into the garden. We even compost our menus. We need all sorts of different types of composting materials. You have a lot of things that get wet as they start to break down, and then you need a bit of dry. Our menus, we print them every day because things change so much. It also helps us think about, can we reuse these vegetable or fruit scraps for something else. And oftentimes they go right into our cocktail program for infusions. We’ve also noticed that our black trash bin doesn’t smell nearly as bad when we’re separating things out, so it feels like we’re doing it right. Rule #4: Get Involved in Urban Planning Doing it right and planning the design of your garden is a lot of times where people get really intimidated. Your fourth rule talks about why it is important to get involved with that process. What’s your rule number four. Our rule number four is get involved in urban planning. And I get why that’s intimidating, and it feels like, how do you possibly get a foot in the door. We started with this piece of land before we even ripped the concrete out. It was a disused car lot for the airport rental vehicles, and it just looked like an absolute trash yard. We sent soil out to labs to get tested. It all came back as if it were just sterile. Nothing had leeched through, thank God, but also there was just no sign of life. For the past seven decades, it had been the other end of the spectrum. Exactly. The big thing with gardens is how do you water it. It’s a very expensive thing if you’re using potable water. And on Westchester Parkway, which is a huge boulevard parallel to the runway at LAX, all of that is watered and irrigated with the purple pipeline that is recycled water from Hyperion. Exactly. So we’re one block away from where that stops. And we were like, we have to get that water. It has nutrients in it, great for what we’re growing. It feels like a really important thing to do in terms of sustainability and our own economic costs of what’s going into this garden, but also advocating for other plots of land around Sepulveda and where we are to have access to that too. So we, it took a long time, but we worked with the city, DWP, got our council people involved and got that pipe extended across Sepulveda. That’s incredible. It was really fun once we got it done. Once we got it done, it was amazing. Rule #5: Plan Six Months Ahead Being able to think about options and different ways of planning and approaching how to grow your own garden at a restaurant is also a giant part of the process. Your fifth and final rule talks about putting in that mental effort while looking further down the road. What’s your rule number five. Rule number five is plan six months ahead. Add it to the list. Just think constantly about what you’re doing in the future. You have to. If you want to harvest something in September, you’ve got to plant it in January, February. We’re very much telling all of our chefs, do you guys want to plant anything. What do you remember growing up with cooking with or something that we don’t know about that your parents used to make for you all the time. Give us some thoughts on what you want to add to the menu. And we’ve had chefs be like, hey, I got these seeds from grandma or whoever. There was actually a guy who was hanging out really early morning by the garden. He sees me and he’s like, this is the most amazing thing I’ve seen. Here, I’ve got some chiltepin pepper seeds. I want to give them to you to try and grow. They’re the native of Chile to North America. Incredible. We want to be planting and harvesting in six months time. It gives inspiration to our staff, to our bar program, to everyone in the restaurant and be like, okay, it’s a super seasonal restaurant, but we’re also growing our own stuff and I can have an effect on what we grow and have a little bit of ownership in this whole program when they’re like, oh, this is what you planted for me and now we’ve got it. Closing Really really fun. It’s such a beautiful idea, this intent to grow and to support your restaurant and the workers there and the creativity. Harry, Natalie, congratulations on everything. If people want to come by the restaurant, see what you’re growing in the garden, just follow along with what you’re up to, where can they go. You can go to our website, tomat.la , or follow us on Instagram at tamat.la, or you can just come right in. Well, I will be crossing town very soon to come have a meal with you and to walk through your lovely garden. See you soon. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .