Pioneering Paradox: A podcast for conflicted saints

While building a wall out of stone in my backyard I began to wonder about the actual stone masons who were part of the original guilds that Freemasonry was founded upon. I took a deep dive and it changed my entire perspective on the symbols of the temple. This episode deals with how the church views freemasonry and old and new connections.

Response to recent Scripture Central series featuring Lawrence Corbridge titled Stand Forever. Corbridge challenged people leaving over church culture.I waited to post this so I had more time to think about the paradox in all this.

We discuss how we have evolved as humans since starting the podcast and instagram account. Also we get into how being public about our experiences is a projection of where we were at the time but might feel differently now.

For the past 13 years Audra Phelps has been living with her family over seas working in international schools in Azerbaijan, Kazakstan, Kosovo, and timor-leste which is a country I didn’t know existed but is near Indonesia. Living abroad gave her the freedom to begin asking herself deeper questions about her faith and what she actually wanted in her own spiritual life. Naturally living abroad gave her many opportunities to meet people of other faiths which led to her questioning the idea that Latter Day Saints had a monopoly on joy. This is her story of how she eventually left the faith of her youth and then slowly found her way back to wholeness. We had a delightful conversation with her a day after she arrived back in the United States after a long time gone. Audra is now back in United States building a coaching practice to help women find wholeness again after the devastating loss of faith. Audra's Coaching: 50% off first visit website: https://mamaaudra.com/oneonone insta: @mamaaudraofficial Guatemala Womens retreat: www.truewithinyou.com

Entering new stages of faith can be frightening but it can also be very exciting. In this convo with our good friend Blake Muir we discuss how spirituality can mean many things and ritual can expand into territory that is unique to each individual.

I was fascinated to discover that two of my good friends who are also brothers were on two ends of the political spectrum. This made me curious how two brothers that I respect see things so differently. I am grateful they were willing to come on and discuss it in a way that was civil and respectful. We based this discussion on the Moral Foundations Theory as proposed by Jonathan Haight.

For almost 200 years, Latter-day Saints were taught that the Book of Mormon tells the story of the Native peoples of North and South America. One Church pamphlet distributed to Native Americans of all tribes stated, and I quote: “The best source of true information that tells you who you are, where you came from, and what you can achieve is found in an important book—the Book of Mormon.” Today we’re joined by Zander Sturgill, an active Latter-day Saint and Navajo who is thoughtfully challenging the predominant historical narrative. His approach honors both Native peoples and the Book of Mormon by allowing their stories to stand strong—separate yet respected. Zander works full-time at the Ancient America Foundation and runs the YouTube channel America Explored , where he examines little-known aspects of Native American history in Utah while honoring both pioneer and Indigenous perspectives. Some recent scholars have described our past insistence on telling Native Americans their own story as a form of Mormon colonization. As usual on this podcast, it’s a paradox. We approach this topic with humility—exploring how Latter-day Saints can honor their sacred text while fully respecting the rich diversity of Native cultures and identities. We don’t presume to label anyone; instead, we create space for people to define themselves. This podcast does not receive any outside funding. We’re able to keep it going thanks to periodic mentions of our international tours. If you’d like to help support the show, please visit www.reliqtravel.com We have some truly amazing tours to Italy with Mcarthur Krishna and Amy Jensen of Women on the Stand and Greece with the That's Church interfaith community, .coming in 2027. Thank you so much for listening. Follow Zander: @ancientamericafoundation Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@zandersturgill

Meagan Skidmore is the author author of TransparentSEE: How I Learned to SEE through My Journey as a Parent of a Transgender Kiddo It's a memoir that chronicles her journey as the parent of a transgender child. Through personal stories, reflection, and spiritual exploration, Skidmore examines how her understanding of identity, faith, family, and love evolved over time. The book invites readers to move beyond fear and assumptions, embracing greater compassion, connection, and acceptance while exploring what it means to truly “see” others—and ourselves. Meagan also has a podcast titled Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt and is a life coach who is currently taking clients.

Melissa de Leon Mason is a therapist in Cache Valley, Utah. She is a graduate of Notre Dame University. She has amassed a following of 10k people on her insta account @quilttallthethings and has spoken on the national level Melissa de Leon Mason is a therapist based in Cache Valley, Utah. She is a graduate of the University of Notre Dame and has built a following of over 10,000 on her Instagram account @quilttallthethings . Also a proud mother of 4 wonderful kids. Fresh off a recent trip to Italy, we invited Melissa to join us for a conversation about travel through the lens of what Richard Rohr calls “the Cosmic Egg.” We explore how our personal and tribal stories are challenged when we leave home, and how travel helps us see that our individual stories are part of a much larger story, the universal human experience of being alive on this planet together. We discuss how travel allows us to expand our perspectives and absorb wisdom from many different cultures. Melissa brings her insight as a therapist to the conversation, blending personal reflection with professional wisdom. If you love travel, this is an episode for you!

As part of a roll out of our 2027 Tours we are excited to announce a tour to Southern Italy April 22-30 with McArthur Krishna and Amy Watkins Jensen. See details here: https://www.reliqtravel.com/tours/becoming

Many of you know that my wife Melanie and I experienced a very difficult and long faith upheaval that affected nearly every aspect of our lives. We can laugh about it now but those years of struggle were very serious and tense times for us. but they were also full of new ideas, unlearning false traditions, rebirth, and excitement. In this episode we talk about how we formed new framework and spiritual rituals that replaced some of the void and grief and helped us maintain a connection to the divine and integrate useful parts of our heritage. We both held onto a belief that moving forward in our faith journey meant letting go of blame, hate and duality and allowing more grace, gratitidue and love in. We hope you enjoy this conversation.

"Every single one of us is selling something or trying to persuade someone multiple times a day. Whether it’s convincing your kids to eat their vegetables and finish their homework, or gently steering your spouse toward Mexican food instead of Italian on date night. The truth is, the art of persuasion is one of the most important skills we can develop. When done well, it strengthens relationships. When done poorly, it can damage them. In today’s episode, we’re joined by author and speaker Christian Hansen to explore how we can master difficult but necessary conversations, build stronger connections, and stay persuasive even when we disagree. Christian is the author of three fantastic books on influence and persuasion: The Influence Mindset , The Influence Mindset for Sales Acceleration , and Unforgettable Phrases That Get People to Choose You . He brought so many practical, thoughtful, and eye-opening ideas to this conversation. So sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode! https://www.amazon.com/Influence-Mindset-Science-Getting-People-ebook/dp/B0989DFGF7 https://www.amazon.com/Influence-Mindset-Sales-Acceleration-People-ebook/dp/B0FDH4LQ7Z https://www.thechristianhansen.com/phrasebook

Eschatology is a word I didn't know prior to this convo with Chad Ford. It deals with theology of end times and how that changes behavior . Chad makes a case that the Latter Day Saint theology dictates that we are co builders with God and we are not to just sit around and let the world collapse around us. How do we balance social ills with inner peace? What can the Latter Day Saints do with the call from President Oaks to "use the language and methods of peacemakers"? How do we help the next generation imagine a better future? These are all topics we discuss in this very important and timely episode. Thanks for listening.

In 2013 one fast and testimony meeting altered the course of our neighborhood. Four families started something we didn't realize would become a yearly tradition, but last week we completed our 14th annual neighborhood National Park Trip. today we have visited 17 parks. I invited Peggy Craney and Corinne Kelly to join me and Mel to talk about how it all began, how it can be replicated (we hope) what these trips have done for our families and most especially our kids. I am just naive enough to believe that nature with friends is just the thing that can heal our divide in our world right now. Thanks for listening.

One day Celestial Marriage (Polygamy) was considered the "Capstone" of our religion, and the next day anyone who continued the practice with a new marriage or even showed favor toward it were excommunicated. That stands still today. The church went from fighting for "the principle" to helping the US government root our fundamentalists in our midst. All the while we never full stopped polygamy, we simply deferred it to the next life. We discuss why in this episode. Also, in 2017 Melanie and Casey on a random chance ended up sleeping over at Warren Jeffs house for a weekend, you know the one that says "Pray and Obey" on the side of it! That one! In this episode tell Wil all about our experience and also the history or how Short Creek (Colorado City and Hildale) were founded and why.

The Book of Mormon presents an interesting paradox: it is often placed on a pedestal, almost like a trophy, as a symbol that we possess the truth, while at the same time it cautions against that very kind of attitude. I haven't read the Book of Mormon in ten years (Casey). I called Will and told him the other day that Donald Trump is almost making me believe in the Book of Mormon again for reasons I did not expect and likely you won't either. Melanie, Casey and Wil have a discussion about it.

MELANIE MCFARLAND of True Within You emotional wellness joins Wil Wood and Casey McFarland to have a discussion about how adults can model civility, hope and better communication for the next generation.

Seven years ago, a group in Cache Valley created FHE for ALL , a community that provides a safe place for LGBTQ Mormons to simply be themselves. In this conversation, Jenny Mathews shares her story of her father coming out when she was in high school, an experience that was very difficult at the time but has since become one of the greatest blessings in her life. Many people contribute to making FHE for ALL the welcoming and supportive space it is today. This discussion also explores how others might think about creating similar safe spaces in their own communities. We love Jenny and the entire FHE for ALL group, and we loved this conversation. We hope you do too! 🌈 If you want to meet another member of this group go back and listen to our episode titled: Coffee hour with Blake

The paradox of Clark Gilbert is that he is both a preserver and a disruptor. He built his reputation on the logic of disruptive innovation arguing that institutions must be willing to dismantle parts of themselves to survive, yet his motivation has often been deeply conservative: to protect enduring values, faith communities, and long-term institutional purpose. He is willing to fire 40% of a newsroom or radically restructure an organization not out of iconoclasm, but out of stewardship. In Gilbert’s model, stability comes through change, and loyalty to a mission sometimes requires disloyalty to a model. That tension between conviction and adaptation, preservation and reinvention is the core of his leadership paradox.

In the fall of 2023 , local leaders in the bay area were instructed by the Area presidency to no longer allow women sit on the stand during ward and stake conferences. While it is not something done in all wards or stakes it was something this area had done for nearly a decade to show respect and honor women leaders in their area. The sudden change was deeply hurtful and left a lot of members asking why? As a result Amy Watkins Jensen started an instagram account titled Women on the Stand. Today it has nearly 15,000 followers. Although it was started by Amy, it has quickly become a place where members can post success stories and little changes and wins in the pursuit of greater equality in the church. We were so happy to interview Amy and we hope you feel inspired to be a part of making a difference after listening to this.