It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper conclude their three-part series on Kevin Keegan by tracing his managerial career and the idealism behind his “why not?” philosophy. They cover his post-playing retreat in Marbella, a 1991 roadside attack that sparked unfounded rumours, and his surprise return to rescue near-bankrupt Newcastle in 1992 despite having barely watched football. Keegan’s early chaos, promotion to the Premier League, and “entertainers” era are explored, including the Andy Cole sale and his famous address to angry fans. The episode revisits the 1995–96 title collapse, his exit amid Newcastle’s flotation plans, spells at Fulham and England, a steadier period at Manchester City, and a final, acrimonious Newcastle return under Mike Ashley, ending with reflections on his legacy and farewell tour. 00:00 Dreamers Welcome 01:39 Marbella Escape 02:49 Celebrity Golf Circuit 04:52 M25 Attack Rumors 08:10 Lightbulb Moment 09:34 Sir John Hall Calls 14:02 Return of the King 17:03 Unprepared New Boss 20:29 Great Escape Finale 22:13 Promotion Blueprint 24:53 Entertainers Era 26:32 Newcastle Goldfish Bowl 28:41 Keegan in the City 30:22 Keegan Tea Reception 32:14 Andy Cole Fallout 33:24 Calming The Mob 36:31 Title Charge Collapse 39:03 Shearer And Glory 41:43 Flotation Clash Exit 44:52 Fulham And England Call 47:24 Poisoned Chalice England 52:56 City Comeback Era 55:36 Third Newcastle Breakdown 58:54 Final Farewell Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their Kevin Keegan series, following his 1977 move from Liverpool to Hamburg for a far higher salary and the difficult start marked by teammate resentment, managerial upheaval, a humiliating Super Cup loss at Anfield, and an eight-week ban after he struck a defender in a friendly at Lübeck. They chart his turnaround under Branko Zebec as Hamburg win the Bundesliga in 1978–79, Keegan becomes a German celebrity, learns the language, and wins the Ballon d’Or twice, before turning down Juventus and returning to England with an underwhelming Southampton spell and a breakdown with Lawrie McMenemy. The episode also covers Keegan’s burdened England captaincy amid missed World Cups, including a beating by Yugoslav police, threats in Belfast, Euro 1980, and injury-hit World Cup 1982, before his high-profile move to Second Division Newcastle, the lift he gives the city, and his retirement after a sobering FA Cup loss to Liverpool. 00:00 Keegan Cashes In 01:06 Hamburg Move Explained 01:39 The Bubble Perm Era 03:40 Frosty Dressing Room 06:36 Lübeck Punch Up 09:46 Backlash and Doubts 10:58 Turning Point Return 12:01 Zebec Sparks Revival 14:03 Pop Star in Germany 17:20 Ballon d'Or Debate 21:12 European Cup Heartbreak 23:14 Shock Southampton Switch 25:07 Saints Reality Check 27:22 Keegan Takes Criticism Personally 28:27 England Captain Burden 30:38 Poland Wembley Heartbreak 31:47 Belgrade Police Beating 34:20 Euro 1980 Chaos 35:38 Thatcher Photo Fallout 36:51 IRA Threats Belfast 40:28 World Cup 1982 Injury 43:50 Newcastle Homecoming Move 46:52 Robson Drops Keegan 49:31 Keegan Lifts Newcastle 55:12 Lawrenson Moment Retirement 55:54 Helicopter Farewell Wrap Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

*The full three-part series is available on Patreon now* Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper pay tribute to Kevin Keegan, who died in July aged 75, reflecting on his rare charisma, self-awareness, and ability to connect with people, as well as his status as the only British player to win the Ballon d’Or twice. They trace his working-class upbringing in Armthorpe near Doncaster, his family’s mining and Labour roots, and formative influences like Sister Mary Oliver, who encouraged his football. The episode follows Keegan’s unlikely early path—rejected by Doncaster and Coventry, starting at Scunthorpe—through his move to Liverpool under Bill Shankly, where his fitness, motivation, and partnership with John Toshack helped drive major success, alongside growing fame via endorsements and Superstars. They end with Keegan’s decision to leave as Liverpool approach European glory. 00:00 Tribute to Keegan 01:09 Charisma and Kindness 06:19 Roots in Doncaster 09:14 Mining Heritage 15:22 School and Sweetheart 22:21 Rejected Then Spotted 24:28 Scunthorpe Breakthrough 28:18 Move to Liverpool 30:03 Negotiating His Worth 33:34 Late Arrival Debut 35:22 Toshack Partnership 35:47 Sweat Box Fitness 37:10 Telepathy Test Hoax 40:12 Shankly Mind Games 41:46 Celebrity Endorsements 47:26 Superstars Bike Crash 49:48 Trophies And Turning Point 54:44 Shankly Leaves Fallout 57:34 European Peak Exit Plan Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The fourth and final episode in Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper's Total Football series explores Ajax’s remarkable success under Stefan Kovacs and the Netherlands’ unforgettable 1974 World Cup campaign. Kovacs inherited Rinus Michels’ European champions but allowed the side’s fluid, player-led style to evolve. Ajax continued to win major honours, including two European Cups, but growing player power and Johan Cruyff’s influence created tensions beneath the success. As internal divisions deepened, Kovacs left, Cruyff departed for Barcelona, and Ajax’s golden era began to unravel. Enter the 1974 World Cup. Despite a difficult qualification process and a squad shaped by rivalries, Michels and Cruyff assembled a side that thrilled the world. They swept past Argentina, overcame Brazil in a fiercely contested encounter, and brought Total Football to its global peak. But in the final against hosts West Germany, an early lead was not enough. Off-pitch distractions, overconfidence and German resilience contributed to a famous 2–1 defeat. The Dutch did not lift the World Cup, but their legacy was greater than a single trophy: Total Football transformed how the modern game is played. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In part three of our Total Football series, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper arrive at Ajax’s golden age. They explore Johan Cruyff’s development: the precocious teenager shaped by Ajax, Vic Buckingham and Rinus Michels; a player whose extraordinary understanding of space, timing and tactics made him the ultimate expression of individuality within a system. The episode unpicks how Ajax’s 4-3-3 worked in practice. Positional rotations, an aggressive offside trap, collective pressing and the instinctive relationships built through years of playing together. Jonathan also examines the uncomfortable questions around fitness, sports science and alleged stimulant use in the era, before charting Ajax’s first European Cup triumph in 1971 and the arrival of Ștefan Kovács after Michels’ departure for Barcelona. This is the story of how a brilliant group of players, led by Cruyff, turned a tactical idea into the most influential team in European football. You can listen to all the Total Football episodes early right now, here on Patreon. Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

*You can listen to the full episode on our Patreon* Rob Draper hosts a bonus edition of It Was What It Was with Jamie Carragher stepping in to pay tribute to the late great Franco Baresi . Carragher explains why Baresi’s name is passed down through generations, calls him the greatest defender he’s ever seen, and hails Sacchi’s AC Milan as the greatest team until Guardiola’s Barcelona, with Baresi and Maldini central to a back four that revolutionised modern football through pressing, a high line and the shift away from the sweeper system. They discuss Baresi’s unique blend of sweeper elegance and aggressive defending in a back four, his extraordinary return from a knee injury for the 1994 World Cup final against Romario, and how his football brain overcame a lack of height. Carragher also shares meeting Baresi at a Milan derby and showing his signed Baresi shirts. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In part two of our Total Football series, Jonathan and Rob explore the ideas behind football’s great tactical revolution. From the structuralist architecture and social change of 1960s Amsterdam to Johan Cruyff’s place within a collective system, they trace how a new way of thinking shaped the Dutch game. But it's not all Ajax. Focus shifts to Rotterdam and Feyenoord: Ernst Happel’s 4-3-3, their landmark 1970 European Cup win, and the overlooked tactical breakthrough that helped pave the way for Ajax and Cruyff. Want to listen to the whole Total Football series now? Sign up to our Patreon for full access. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the first episode of a new four-part series, Jonathan and Rob examine the origins of Total Football - and why it is far more than simply slick passing or players swapping positions. They explore the overlooked influence of English coach Vic Buckingham at Ajax, the role of Rinus Michels in shaping the philosophy, and the tactical shift from individual battles to coordinated systems. There's why Dutch football’s late professionalisation made it a laboratory for new ideas; how advances in fitness made pressing possible; and why similar thinking was developing simultaneously in Soviet football under Valeriy Lobanovskyi. This is the story of the conditions that made Total Football possible - before Johan Cruyff became its greatest expression. Rob and Jonathan will be back next week for part two. Sign up to our Patreon to get early-access to every episode right now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest Jordi Cruyff for the first episode in a new series on Total Football: its origins, its legacy, and one of its key architects, Johan Cruyff. Who better than Jordi to reflect on his father's footballing influences and legacy? Beginning with his upbringing in Amsterdam, the hardship that shaped his ambition, and the profound influence of Rinus Michels on his development, Jordi also shares personal insight into Johan’s personality: stubborn, curious, challenging and, of course, never afraid to go against the grain. The conversation explores Cruyff’s football philosophy in detail - his attacking mindset, positional ideas, emphasis on angles and intelligence, and refusal to compromise on style. Jordi also retells the story of being named Jordi in Franco-era Spain, a moment that captured his father’s defiant spirit and deep connection with Catalonia. Rob, Jonathan and Jordi look at Johan’s transformational impact on Barcelona, the 1992 European Cup, his influence on Pep Guardiola, and how Cruyff’s ideas continue to shape elite football - from La Masia to the modern Premier League. Rob and Jonathan will be back next week for a dive into the origins of Total Football itself; the first in a new four-part series. Sign up to our Patreon to get early-access to every episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In World Cup final week, we just had to ask Jonathan and Rob to decide on the best World Cup finals of all time - and they certainly delivered. From Uruguay in 1930 to Qatar in 2022, there's no better way to whet your appetite for Sunday evening than by taking a trip down memory lane with the guys. From the drama of that very first final in 1930, to the political tension and selection intrigue of Hungary’s defeat to Italy in 1938, they trace how the World Cup final quickly became a stage for far more than just football. Along the way they revisit the heartbreak of the 1950 Maracanazo, the tactical and cultural significance of West Germany’s win over the Netherlands in 1974, and the extraordinary scale of the 1954 Miracle of Bern, when Hungary’s great side were denied by West Germany. They also reflect on the modern classic of Argentina v France in 2022. Will we have another classic on our hands in 2026? 00:00 Uruguay 4–2 Argentina (1930) 17:45 West Germany 2–1 Netherlands (1974) 30:15 Uruguay 2–1 Brazil (1950) 40:55 Italy 4–2 Hungary (1938) 47:50 Argentina 3–3 France (2022) 54:55 West Germany 3–2 Hungary (1954) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper pick their favourite World Cup quarterfinals while previewing the upcoming last-eight: Portugal’s 5–3 comeback against North Korea at Goodison Park in 1966, highlighting Eusébio’s peak display, disputed refereeing, and the enduring Middlesbrough bond with the North Korean team; Germany–Argentina in 2006 as a pivotal step in Klinsmann’s cultural and tactical reset with Löw, Lehmann’s sock note in the shootout, and debate over Pekerman’s substitutions; and Argentina–Netherlands in 2022, remembered amid Grant Wahl’s death, for Messi’s pass, a record 18 yellows, a late Weghorst equaliser from a worked free kick, and a combustible shootout and aftermath. Wilson also covers Italy–Spain in 1934 as Mussolini’s World Cup’s key test and Draper adds Italy–Brazil 1982 and France–Brazil 1986 as defining classics. 00:00 Quarterfinal Classics Setup 00:47 Portugal vs North Korea 1966 03:40 Goodison Shock and Comeback 08:32 Eusebio Takes Over 10:10 Legacy and Middlesbrough Bond 16:19 Germany vs Argentina 2006 17:20 Klinsmann Revolution Explained 23:27 Match Drama and Lehmann Note 26:11 Argentina vs Netherlands 2022 30:33 Battle of Lusail Chaos 34:48 Penalties And Tragedy 36:04 Mussolini World Cup Clash 41:41 Replay And Brutality 42:58 England Debate Sunderland Joke 44:43 Rossi Sinks Brazil 1982 49:50 Romance Dies Guardiola Inspired 51:57 France Brazil 1986 Classic 57:43 Shootout Controversy Carlos Story 01:00:31 Legacy And Wrap Up Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Throughout the World Cup Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are recording weekly live Q&As, exclusively for our Patreon subscribers. This week, all eyes were on England's win over DR Congo, sparking a debate on their reliance on Harry Kane. A worry, or a strength? There's a look at Marcelo Bielsa's Uruguay, a debate on what's happened to Germany, and so much more in this week's World Cup mailbag. Want in? Then all you need to do is head over to www.patreon.com/ItWas and sign up for £4.99 a month. That'll get you access to Rob and Jonathan's live Q&As and a whole host of bonus content, including: The World Cup Collection - dissecting every tournament since 1930. Retro Magazine Collection - flicking through the archives of classic football culture. Lots of bonus, one-off IWWIW specials. Plus, you'll become part of our growing IWWIW community on Patreon. Sign up today to hear the full episode - and we'll see you on Patreon. Thanks for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

To listen to the full four-part series instantly, subscribe to our Patreon where listeners can enjoy ad-free listening, our World Cup Wednesdays, bonus editions and live Q&A episodes. Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson conclude their four-part series on England’s 1966 World Cup win, picking up from the semi-final against Portugal and Eusébio, where Alf Ramsey sticks with Geoff Hurst over the media-favoured Jimmy Greaves and England’s wingless 4-1-3-2 thrives, with Bobby Charlton scoring twice and Jack Charlton’s handball leading to a late penalty. They then set up the final against West Germany, including Ramsey’s instruction for Charlton to sit deeper and nullify Franz Beckenbauer, before revisiting a disjointed 4–2 match shaped by England’s direct play, West Germany’s controversial equaliser, Hurst’s debated goal off the bar, and his hat-trick. The episode also explores Ramsey’s vindication, England’s fitness and planning, and the broader cultural context of Swinging London, post-imperial Britain, and the night of celebrations after victory. 00:00 Doubting Ramsey 00:23 Series Setup 01:04 Semifinal Stakes 02:07 Bobby Charlton Anxiety 05:13 Greaves Or Hurst 07:12 Wingless Wonders Win 08:57 Charlton Double 11:44 Penalty Scare 12:50 Charlton Family Duty 14:53 1966 Life Off Pitch 17:47 Cinema And Trauma 20:13 Final Plan Mark Beckenbauer 22:20 Final Rewatch Context 24:03 Targeting Tilkowski 25:07 Final Goals Breakdown 26:26 German Equaliser Debate 28:13 Ramsey Team Talk Myth 29:26 Ramsey Mind Games 30:08 Fitness Wins Extra Time 30:34 Was It Over The Line 32:52 Pitch Invaders Fourth Goal 33:48 Hurst Becomes Immortal 35:01 Planning Versus Flair 36:52 Ramsey Vindicated 40:19 War Memory And Germany 43:05 Swinging London Soundtrack 45:19 Post Imperial Cool Britannia 50:48 Football Enters Mainstream 54:07 Night Of Celebration 57:05 Legacy And Farewell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

To listen to the full four-part series instantly, subscribe to our Patreon where listeners can enjoy ad-free listening, our World Cup Wednesdays, bonus editions and live Q&A episodes. Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson continue their series on how England won the 1966 World Cup by focusing on the quarter-final against Argentina, presented as the tournament’s key and most controversial test. They explain Alf Ramsey’s tactical preparation, including hiding his 4-1-3-2 “wingless” system and replacing the injured Jimmy Greaves with the more aerially suited Geoff Hurst. The episode traces Ramsey’s lessons from England’s 1964 South American trip, where Argentina’s pragmatic defensive approach and man-marking shaped his thinking, then sets the fraught 1966 backdrop: referee paranoia, Argentina’s internal chaos and recent coup, and a Wembley training dispute caused by greyhound racing. They dissect Antonio Rattín’s baffling dismissal amid language barriers and unclear bookings, the ugly atmosphere, and England’s 1–0 win through Hurst, before covering the aftermath, including Ramsey’s “animals” remark, protests, bans, fines, and Argentina’s defiant homecoming. 00:00 Setting Up England Argentina 01:23 Ramsey Hides Wingless Wonders 03:16 Hurst Replaces Greaves 05:11 Mundialito Lessons In Brazil 09:47 Argentina Pragmatism And Press Reaction 15:43 Referee Paranoia And FIFA Politics 19:14 Argentina Chaos Before Wembley 22:40 Greyhound Racing And Pre Match Tension 26:32 Match Begins And Footage Limits 29:37 Rattin Booking Sparks Flashpoint 33:57 Booking Confusion Builds 35:06 Rattin Sent Off Mystery 38:40 Interpreter Myth Explained 41:53 Aero Bars and Union Jack 45:25 Who Was Actually Booked 46:06 Press Fury and Fix Claims 51:56 Ten Men Battle On 56:01 England Finally Break Through 57:18 Animals Comment Fallout 01:03:17 Bans Fines and Aftermath Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

To listen to the full four-part series instantly, subscribe to our Patreon where listeners can enjoy ad-free listening, our World Cup Wednesdays, bonus editions and live Q&A episodes. Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson continue their four-part series on England’s 1966 World Cup win by tracing how Alf Ramsey’s team took shape amid low expectations and press criticism after a 3–2 Wembley loss to Austria. They discuss doubts over the 4-2-4, Bobby Charlton’s role, and growing concerns about Jimmy Greaves’ form, before key friendlies reveal Ramsey’s “wingless wonders” approach: a 4-1-3-2/4-3-3 hybrid showcased in Spain and then unveiled dramatically in Poland with the surprise inclusion of Martin Peters. At the World Cup, Ramsey initially reverts to wingers, drawing 0–0 with Uruguay, then beating Mexico 2–0 via a standout Bobby Charlton strike and France 2–0 with Roger Hunt’s goals. Two shadows emerge: Nobby Stiles’ violent conduct against France and Greaves’ shin injury that rules him out of the quarterfinal, opening the door for Geoff Hurst. 00:00 England Written Off 01:48 Austria Defeat Fallout 04:17 Ramsey Rethinks Tactics 07:47 Greaves Under Scrutiny 10:24 Spain Reveals Wingless Plan 15:08 Poland Test and Peters Shock 20:43 Hiding the System 22:21 World Cup Opener Uruguay 25:49 Uruguay Stalemate Fallout 26:49 Meet J L Manning 28:58 Tactics Jargon Backlash 32:24 Mexico Magic Moment 33:15 Charlton Screamer Breakdown 36:18 France Win And Rotation 39:04 Stiles Controversy And FA Row 42:36 Greaves Injury Hurst Opportunity 44:50 Greaves Debate Luxury Player 50:05 Next Episode And Patreon Plug Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

To listen to the full four-part series instantly, subscribe to our Patreon where listeners can enjoy ad-free listening, our World Cup Wednesdays, bonus editions and live Q&A episodes. Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson begin a four-part series revisiting England’s 1966 World Cup win by focusing on Sir Alf Ramsey’s background and the conservative England setup he inherited, including the FA selection committee and a poor early World Cup record. They argue Ramsey, often caricatured as dour, was socially conservative and xenophobic but tactically radical, demanding control of selection and modernizing England with a system-focused approach influenced by his Ipswich success, zonal marking, and experiments that questioned traditional wingers. They discuss his reserved personality, class and heritage issues, a reported instance of backing a player convicted of gross indecency, and why blaming 1966 for later English insularity is misguided. Ramsey’s early England results are mixed, but a 1964 Brazil trip helps crystallize his shift away from 4-2-4, and by April 1965 the emerging core includes Banks, Moore, Jack Charlton, and Nobby Stiles. 00:00 Meet Alf Ramsey 01:49 Ipswich Miracle Title 03:28 Ending Selection Committees 05:20 England World Cup Woes 06:50 Dour Yet Radical 09:23 Xenophobia And Origins 14:14 Was 1966 A Curse 17:28 Ramsey Playing Roots 20:36 Ipswich Tactical Experiments 24:38 Brutalism And Football 27:27 Brutalism Meets Football 31:21 Ramsey Blueprint Emerges 33:02 First Camp Shock Therapy 36:43 Early Results and Doubts 40:05 Brazil Trip Reality Check 40:43 Curfew Crackdown 46:16 Tactics Shift and New Spine 47:51 Jack Charlton and Stiles Debut 53:19 Foundations of 1966 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by Tim Vickery to discuss the extraordinary story of Brazil at the World Cup. From the ultra-nationalism and hysteria of 1938, to the trauma of the Maracanazo in 1950, and the glorious Pelé years that forged a nation's identity between 1958 and 1970. Vickery traces every Brazilian World Cup campaign. Drawing on his new book Mundiales, Vickery offers a uniquely South American perspective on how the beautiful game's most celebrated nation has wrestled with myth, race, politics, and tactical evolution across nearly a century of football. With the 2026 World Cup on the horizon and Carlo Ancelotti now at the helm, can Brazil rediscover their identity, or has the ghost of 1970 become an impossible standard? 00:00 Introduction — Tim Vickery Joins from Rio 06:30 The Myth of Samba Football 13:00 1938, Radio, and Tropical Nationalism 19:30 1950, The Maracanazo and a Nation's Trauma 27:00 1954, The Battle of Bern and Revenge Football 31:30 1958, Meticulous Planning, Pelé, and Redemption 37:20 The Post-1970 Identity Crisis 41:00 1982, Failure and a Lost Midfield Art 47:00 The Domestic Decline of Brazilian Coaching 49:30 Qatar 2022, Were Brazil Really That Far Off? 52:00 Carlo Ancelotti and the 2026 World Cup Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper pick their six greatest European Cup and Champions League finals of all time. From the 127,000 who stayed to applaud Real Madrid's 7-3 demolition of Eintracht Frankfurt in 1960, to Ajax passing Juventus into submission in 1973 and Pep Guardiola's Barcelona spearheaded by Xavi flying to the title at Wembley in 2011. Wilson and Draper trace the tactical revolutions, romantic triumphs, and spectacular collapses that defined European football's greatest competition. With Arsenal facing PSG in this week's Champions League final, will Mikel Arteta join the elite list of managers who have won Europes’s elite competition or will Luis Enrique go back to back with PSG? 00:00 Introduction — Champions League Final Week 06:30 Real Madrid 7-3 Eintracht Frankfurt (1960) 19:20 Ajax 1-0 Juventus (1973) 34:50 AC Milan 4-0 Barcelona (1994) 42:15 Celtic 2-1 Inter Milan (1967) 53:40 Barcelona 3-1 Manchester United (2011) 58:10 Benfica 5-3 Real Madrid (1962) 01:03:20 Why Not 1999 or 2005? — And Can PSG Become an All-Time Great? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Listen to the Full Episode on the IWWIW Patreon here... In this Patreon special of It Was What It Was, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper speak with Jonathan Northcroft about the updated paperback edition of their Gareth Southgate book, retitled Inside England, which adds four new chapters. They discuss Southgate’s cultural reset, including the Royal Marines camp at Lympstone, and trace the deeper roots of England’s revival through reforms such as EPPP and England DNA, alongside figures like Dan Ashworth, Dave Redding, Trevor Brooking and Greg Dyke’s 2022 World Cup target. They cover how improved youth development, psychology and data-led penalty preparation helped transform England into a resilient tournament team, before assessing Euro 2024’s tactical problems and the FA’s decision to appoint Thomas Tuchel for “wow factor” and elite coaching. They end by weighing concerns about recent friendlies, squad management and camp culture heading into the World Cup. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by Michael Grant, Scottish football correspondent for The Times and author of Fergie Rises, to tell the story of how a young Alex Ferguson shattered the Old Firm duopoly and transformed Aberdeen into serial winners. This Episode was recorded before the dramatic showdown on the final day of the SPL season between Celtic and Hearts, but was this just the start of the Hearts story? Will they continue threatening to break the Rangers-Celtic stranglehold for years to come? Wilson, Draper and Grant trace the remarkable parallels with Ferguson's Aberdeen revolution. They explore how a brash 36-year-old manager, fresh from a humiliating tribunal after being sacked by St Mirren, walked into a club that had nearly been relegated two years earlier and forged a dynasty. Along the way, they examine the clashes on the pitch, the psychological scars of Fergie's playing days, the infamous post-cup final rant that still hurts his players 40 years on. Michael Grant reveals the man behind the myth... volatile, funny, manipulative, and utterly relentless. 00:00 Introduction — Hearts, the Old Firm, and Why Fergie Matters Now 06:30 Aberdeen Before Ferguson — Nearly Relegated 12:45 The St Mirren Sacking and the Tribunal 19:20 The Westhill Willy Biters 27:10 Willie Miller and the Power Struggle 34:50 Breaking the Old Firm's Psychological Hold 42:15 Winning the League — 5-0 at Easter Road 48:00 Knocking on Fergie's Door at 3am 53:40 The Liverpool Humiliation 58:10 Fergie's Fury — The Morning After Anfield 01:03:20 Youth Development and Building a Dynasty 01:09:00 The Infamous 1983 Cup Final Rant 01:14:30 Why the Old Firm Were Vulnerable — and can Hearts Can Do It Again? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.