Wicked Complex

In this episode, Mark Cabaj, internationally recognized leader in developmental evaluation and systems change, discusses his adaptation of the adaptive cycle. He explores how we are in a period of disruption, what that means for system change makers, and how they might support the disruption and unravelling of previously established systems as part of a transition to something new. This framework offers language and a framing for where things are at and, more importantly, names some actions we can take to feel a sense of hope and agency in times where we can otherwise feel helpless and discouraged. As founder and President of Here to There Consulting, Mark's current focus is on developing practical ways to understand, plan, and evaluate efforts to address complex issues - including neighborhood renewal, poverty and homelessness, community safety, educational achievement, and health. He is particularly involved in developing and promoting developmental evaluation, an approach to assessment that emphasizes real time feedback and learning in emerging, messy, and sometimes fast-moving environments.

In the second episode of Season 2, The Sacred Bit: Reconciliation Through Laughter, Sincerity, and Love, your hosts Paige Reeves and Rebecca Rubuliak sit down with Sakawithiniwak sibling duo Jacquelyn and Hunter Cardinal of Naheyawin , bringing Nehiyaw wisdom to questions of play, creativity, and social change. Drawing on their reconciliation work, they share why leading with love isn’t soft—it’s strategic, why laughter can be sacred, and how telling stories authentically might be the most radical act of all.

In this episode, your hosts, Paige Reeves and Rebecca Rubuliak, sit down with Ben Weinlick, Executive Director of Skills Society and the visionary behind the Action Lab . They chat about the role of humour and absurdity as essential tools, not luxuries, in social change work, especially during times of austerity. Listen in as they discuss insights from leaders and mentors, how humour and play show up in practice, stories to learn from (urinal flies, invention of cathode ray tube TV, sisyphus, the paradox of hope), and so much more! In a world marked by deepening polarization, democratic erosion, and relentless uncertainty, we often believe that solving complex social problems requires grim determination and endless seriousness. But what if we've got it backwards? In this season of Wicked Complex, we explore how imagination, play, creativity, and even absurdity become radical acts of resistance. We speak with systemic designers, human-centered design practitioners, and social innovators who've discovered that playfulness isn't a luxury or distraction—it's essential fuel for meaningful change. Together, we'll ask: How do we maintain hope when the stakes feel impossibly high? What happens when we give ourselves permission to imagine differently, to laugh, to create? And how can communities in Alberta and beyond harness creativity and absurdity not as escapism, but as catalysts for transformation? This season is an invitation to reclaim lightness, joy, and play as legitimate tools for building the world we need—and for sustaining ourselves and our movements while we do.

This episode is the third in a three part series around the Future of Labs Gathering in May 2024, where social innovation lab practitioners from around Canada came together on Cortes Island in British Columbia to try to figure out what the next 10 years of lab practice might look like. This episode dives deep into key insights and actionable recommendations from the gathering report . The podcast guests (see below) explore what emerged during the gathering, key themes and patterns emerging in the field, and five bold recommendations for the future of Labs in Canada. A shoutout and thank-you to our guests for this episode: Annand Ollivierre, Team Lead at J5 Design and Future of Labs participant, Rebecca Rubuliak, Director of Continuous Improvement and Innovation at Action Lab and Convenor of Future of Labs, Ben Weinlick, Founder of Action Lab and Convenor of Future of Labs, and Tim Draimin, Board Chair of Social Innovation Canada and Advisor of Future of Labs.

Season 1: The Future of Labs This episode is the second in a three part series around the Future of Labs Gathering in May 2024, where social innovation lab practitioners from around Canada came together on Cortes Island in British Columbia to try to figure out what the next 10 years of lab practice might look like. Across these three episodes, we will be talking to folks before, during, and after the Future of Labs Gathering. This episode: Cortes Island. We listen in as sixty-odd folks from social innovation labs, funding organizations, and Social Innovation Canada all gather at the Hollyhock Retreat on the island. They meet under cedar trees to put sticky notes on flipcharts, and they share oysters and beers on the beach together -- to see if they can agree on what labs are best at, and where their work begins and ends. Many participants lent their voices to this episode, including Rose Hanson, Brenda Hanson, Lewis Muirhead, Meghan Durieux, Rhea Kachroo, Roya Damabi, Mark Cabaj, Geraldine Cahill, Miquel de Paladella, Ben Weinlick, Sophia Ikura, Maryam Mohiuddin Ahmed and Annelies Tjebbes, Alex Ryan, Keren Perla, Aleeya Velji, Heather Remacle, Diane Roussin, Cheryl Rose, Darcy Riddell, Brent Wellsch, Rebecca McSheffery, Rebecca Rubuliak, Melanie Thomas, Sarah Lamb and Julia Dalman. The Future of Labs Gathering is convened and sponsored by Social Innovation Canada and Action Lab . Support for this podcast series comes from the Action Lab, the Edmonton Community Foundation , the Hamilton Community Foundation , and the Oakville Community Foundation . A special thank you to Suncor Energy Foundation for supporting the Future of Labs. Music for this episode by Blue Dot Sessions and Weinlick .

Season 1: The Future of Labs This episode is the beginning of a three part series around the Future of Labs Gathering in May 2024, where social innovation lab practitioners from around Canada will be coming together on Cortes Island in British Columbia to try to figure out what the next 10 years of lab practice might look like. Across these three episodes, we will be talking to folks before, during, and after the Future of Labs Gathering. This episode: Before. In the first half of the episode, we’ll talk to some of the people who’ve been hard at work organizing this gathering, to try to find out what labs are capable of, where they stumble, and why they feel like labs in Canada are at a crossroads. Our guests in this first conversation are Ben Weinlick (Executive Director of Skills Society ), Geraldine Cahill (Director of Engagement with Social Innovation Canada ) and Mark Cabaj (President of Here to There Consulting ). Then in the second half, hear how Winnipeg Boldness Project Director Diane Roussin is using labs to make sure Indigenous families have a voice in defining the problems they want to solve. You'll also learn what she’s hoping for on Cortes Island, from finding ways to build awareness of labs to paying attention to the island itself together. The Future of Labs Gathering is convened and sponsored by Social Innovation Canada and Action Lab . Support for this podcast series comes from the Action Lab, the Edmonton Community Foundation , the Hamilton Community Foundation , and the Oakville Community Foundation . A special thank you to Suncor Energy Foundation for supporting the Future of Labs. Music for this episode by Blue Dot Sessions and Weinlick .

What the heck are social innovation labs? Why did systems change leaders think they might help with some of the complex challenges of our time? And where are labs headed next? Coming soon from Action Lab, this is the Wicked Complex podcast, where we'll explore all of those questions. Join us for a three-part series centred around the Future of Labs Gathering in British Columbia coming up in May 2024. We'll talk to experienced folks in this field before, during, and after the gathering to see when they think labs have lived up to their promise, when they haven't, and what they're hoping to decide together about where to go next. Follow now to get the first episode in your feed when it drops.