The Creative Kind

Anita Phillips is a West Australian landscape painter raised on a Wheatbelt farm, who spent close to four decades as a home economics teacher before painting became her full-time focus. In this conversation she talks about selling her Perth home, resigning from teaching, and moving to the Bellarine Peninsula near Geelong and what she expects to change, and not change, in her and her work once she's away from the landscape she's painted for most of her career. Anita talks through how her practice has developed and shifted over time, the role travel has played, the residencies that sparked real change in her, and how drawing and journalling became central to her process alongside painting. She also discusses the role of her circle of artist friends have played throughout her career and how those friends have supported her, mentored her early on, and given her the confidence to make this move. She also talks about the mentoring she sought out earlier in her career, and about the wider artist community she's built through Instagram and residencies. Find Anita Phillips here on instagram and here : anitaphillips.com.au Anita has an upcoming exhibition titled 'Shaped By Weather' with Michael Reid Southern Highlands from 17th September to 18th October 2026 Mentioned: Carly Le Cerf : here on instagram and here carlylecerf.com.au Julz Beresford: here on instagram and here julzberesford.com Lauren (Elise) Kennedy: here on instagram and here laurenelisekennedy.com.au Sophie Perez: here on instagram and here sophieperezartist.com PS Art Space (PSAS): here on instagram and here psas.com.au Michael Reid Southern Highlands: here on instagram and here michaelreidsouthernhighlands.com.au Brisons Veor, Cape Cornwall (residency) — brisonsveor.org.uk WASPS Scotland (residency organisation, Skye and Shetland) — waspsstudios.org.uk Sydney Contemporary here on instagram and here sydneycontemporary.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode I talked with Amy Stapleton about changing direction in her art practice. Amy has moved from painting gum trees and landscapes towards more abstract and experimental work. We discuss the difficulty of moving away from work that has been successful and how she has facilitated her practice to change. Amy talks about burnout, the value of stepping away, and how a residency at The Corridor Project helped her reconnect with making. We also discuss exhibitions, art communities, building confidence, working across different materials and scales, and the challenge of creating without knowing what the outcome will be. We talk about comparison, success and finding your own voice, as well as Amy's interest in art history and looking at how other artists' practices have changed over time. Amy has an upcoming show ‘Do not go gentle’ with Side Gallery in Brisbane on October 8-17, where proceeds from sales will support Dangerous Females' work for domestic and family violence services. Find Amy at her website here and on instagram here People and places mentioned The Corridor Project , Laura Horn Cynthia Copley Julie Bradley Ipswich Art Gallery - Sharing the National Collection (Rothko & Agnes Martin, on loan from the National Gallery of Australia) You can find the podcast here Thanks so much for listening! Feel free to rate, review & share if you enjoyed it, this helps other people find the show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Laura Brinin is back on the podcast, and today we're talking about mentoring. Laura is a curator and arts administrator, and one half of Side Gallery in Brisbane, and she also works at a university art gallery and does professional development with artists. We talk about whether Laura had a mentor herself, and the piece of advice she got early on that she now thinks was the best bad advice she's ever received. We chat about how to know when you're actually ready for mentoring versus when you think you need it, and why finding the right mentor matters. We get into the difference between mentoring and just getting feedback on your work, and whether mentoring should come through your gallery or sit outside of it. Laura talks through a couple of mentoring myths, what her own process actually looks like, and a mistake she sees a lot in early-career artists around niching down too soon. We also talk about finding your community, how she likes to run a group critique, what to do if your work starts looking too similar to someone else's, and how mentoring is usually structured in terms of frequency and length. Laura Brinin @laura__who Side Gallery, Brisbane sidegallery.com.au Dunedin Public Art Gallery You can find the podcast her e on Instagram & here on Substack If you're interested in a video of this episode- you can find it on the Substack or on Youtube Thanks so much for listening! Feel free to rate, review & share if you enjoyed it, this helps other people find the show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week I chat with Nick Smith, founder and director of N. Smith Gallery in Sydney to talk about what gallery representation looks like; What does a gallery really do? How do they decide who to work with? And what makes a gallery relationship successful over the long term? Since opening in 2021, Nick has built a gallery that represents 26 artists across Australia while exhibiting internationally through museums, art fairs and major projects.We talked about what representation means beyond simply hanging work on a wall. Nick shares how his team supports artists through pricing, museum relationships, public art commissions, publications, marketing and career planning. We also discuss what artists often misunderstand about representation, some of the ways artists can approach a gallery, what to include in an email and how artists living outside major cities can still get noticed. We also dive into international art fairs, the realities of running a commercial gallery, what happens when an artist's career plateaus, and why timing, trust and honest conversations are so important. One of the things I appreciated most about this conversation was Nick's willingness to talk about the relationship between artist and gallery as exactly that: a relationship. It's built over years, evolves over time, and works best when both sides communicate openly about their ambitions, expectations and challenges. You can find N.Smith Gallery at nsmithgallery.com and on Instagram at @n.smithgallery and @nw.smith Find the Art Wan k Episode with Nick here Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode I sit down with Rachael Parsons, Director of the New England Regional Art Museum (NERAM), to talk about copying and copyright in visual art. We trace copying's long history as a teaching tool and talk about the point where it tips over into forgery or passing someone else's work off as your own. Rachael breaks down what copyright law actually protects (a specific artwork) versus what it doesn't (style, colour palette, subject matter). We discuss how a reputation for derivative work can affect an artist's exhibition and grant opportunities & what artists can actually do if they think they've been copied. Rachael talks about some of the bigger historical cases of mass forgery & we also touch on the impact of AI in this matter- how training data complicates copyright, why some art prizes now have no-AI policies, and whether AI-generated art will end up as its own category altogether. Links mentioned: Find Rachael Parsons here on Instagram, and here at NERAM NERAM: https://www.neram.com.au Tamworth Regional Gallery here on instagram and here https://tamworthregionalgallery.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, I'm joined once again by Amanda Billing, who has completed several 100 Day Projects over the years. This time, she reflects on what happened when she spent 100 consecutive days working with clay, why she invited a community of artists to join her, and what she learned from watching dozens of people move through the same experience. We talk about why the 100 Day Project can be used to learn an entirely new medium, deepen an existing practice, or simply create space for something that's been sitting quietly in the background for years. Amanda shares why she believes the most successful projects aren't driven by external outcomes, but by deeply personal motivations that keep you coming back, even on the days when the excitement has worn off. Our conversation explores the reality of showing up every day: the boredom, the resistance, the unexpected breakthroughs, and the moments where you discover that the project isn't really about the work you're making at all. It's about the habits, stories and assumptions you uncover about yourself along the way. We also discuss what Amanda observed while guiding a group of artists through the process together. From experienced professionals to complete beginners they talked and shared their experience together - the uncertainty, self-doubt, periods where it felt like nothing was happening, and eventually, a growing confidence that extended well beyond the creative work itself. Amanda Billing is an actor, portrait photographer, and artist based in Auckland. Find her at amandabilling.co.nz and on Instagram @amandabillingnz Find her 100 day project page here @_householdgods_ Mentioned in this episode: The 100 Day Project is run by Lindsay Jean Thompson. Find the Instagram at @dothe100dayproject and the Substack at the100dayproject.substack.com . Wendy Mac find her substack here and her instagram here The podcast Make Art Not Content : find the episode here and the Instagram here Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sam Michelle and Deb McKenzie met more then a decade ago when they were both given studios in a shared space through their framer. What started as five or six days a week working alongside each other quietly became one of the most important relationships in both their practices. In this conversation we talk about what it means to have someone who genuinely gets it, not just the excitement of a new show, but the pre-show spiral, the post-show crash, the gallery relationship you're not sure is right, the decision that feels too big to make alone. We talk about vulnerability and whether you actually move through self-doubt faster when you've got someone to be honest with. We talk about the art world feeling opaque and why having one person you can call and say "is this normal?" matters. We also get into what it means to have someone who can give you an honest perspective without any competing interest, someone who knows what's normal in this industry and what isn't, and who will tell you either way. Find Sam here on her website here and her instagram here: sammichelle.com.au and on Instagram @sammichelleartist . Find my previous chats with sam here Find Debbie McKenzie on her website here and her instagram here debbiemackenzieartist.co m and Instagram @debbiemackenzieartist Find my previous chat with Deb here You can find the podcast her e on Instagram & here on substack Thanks so much for listening! Feel free to rate, review & share if you enjoyed it, this helps other people find the show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Most artists know the Affordable Art Fair exists. What it's actually like to be there as an artist, on the floor, in the booth, talking to strangers about your work for four days straight, is a different story. Georgia Huestis is the Fair Director of the Affordable Art Fair in Australia, with Fairs in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane and she was so generous with information this week in our chat. In this conversation we get into the mechanics of how the fair actually works for artists, be it with a gallery, the collective model, the Young Talent program for unrepresented artists under 35. We chatted about the sort of support the fair offers around selling, hanging, and getting your booth to land. Georgia is refreshingly practical about what a slow day means, what a first fair is supposed to feel like, and why bringing someone in as your support person might be one of the best decisions you make. you can find Georgia on instagram here Plus find the Affordable Art Fair Australia here on Instagram and their website here The Melbourne Affordable Art fair is on soon- August 27-30 SYDNEY: 5-8 November BRISBANE: May 2027 Links Affordable Art Fair Australia Georgia Huestis Alice Palmer Rich & Strange Gallery Angela Moritz Vandal ltd Rachel Rush Diego Faivre Claudio Kirac Anna Price You can find the podcast her e on Instagram & here on substack Thanks so much for listening! Feel free to rate, review & share if you enjoyed it, this helps other people find the show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What if standing in front of a work of art actually changed it? That's the question at the heart of this conversation with Harriet Schwarzrock, an Australian glass artist who captures plasma inside blown glass vessels that respond to your presence. Move closer, and the light shifts. Touch the surface, and it intensifies. The viewer literally becomes part of the circuit. Harriet is a doctoral candidate at the Australian National University researching plasma illumination as a responsive and relational artistic medium. Her work has been shown at the National Portrait Gallery in Canberra, Berengo Studio in Murano Venice, and most recently in Fluid Presence at Wagga Wagga City Art Gallery. We talk the role of the viewer, when she thinks about it, what it means for a viewer to complete a work and the interactions that happen when an artwork that can be touched or changes on approach. And we talk about what the role of human connection plays in the organic, vascular shapes that run through her most recent work. You can find Harriet here on instagram and here on her website Links: Harriet Schwarzrock: www.schwarzrockglass.com Harriet's 2026 Wagga Wagga Art Gallery Installation Harriet's 2021 National Portrait Gallery installation: portrait.gov.au ANU School of Art & Design Canberra Glassworks : canberraglassworks.com Steven Cole : stevencole.com.au Richard Wheater : www.richardwheater.com Emma Kate Heart : www.neon-hart.com David Haines & Joyce Hinterding : haineshinterding.net Richard Box — FIELD : Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today on The Creative Kind, I’m talking to artist Lucy Hersey, who lives and works in South Gippsland, Victoria, creating paintings made from earth pigments she gathers and processes by hand. Lucy’s work is deeply connected to landscape, not just visually, but materially. She collects clays, rocks, and natural pigments from the land around her and turns them into paint, creating works that are literally made from the places they depict. But this conversation isn’t just about materials or process (though this might have to be a follow up episode!) We’re talking about something I think almost every artist wrestles with at some point: what actually happens when you try to make work without thinking about whether it will sell ? Artists hear that advice constantly “just make the work,” “don’t think commercially,” “follow the work” but the reality of doing this is usually more complicated then it sounds. Lucy talks openly about the tension between commercial work and non commercial work, the strange freedom of being given permission to work without a sales outcome attached, as well as some of the other things she learnt about herself and her work through this process. You can find Lucy Hersey on her Website: https://www.lucyhersey.com or on instagram here On Clarence Studios: https://www.instagram.com/onclarence/ Latrobe Regional Gallery: www.latroberegionalgallery.com You can find the podcast here on Instagram & here on substack Thanks so much for listening! Feel free to rate, review & share if you enjoyed it, this helps other people find the show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of The Creative Kind , I’m joined by Jasmine Kroeze and Petrina Jose for a conversation about pivoting, what it really looks like to change direction creatively, professionally, and personally. We talk about how Jasmine moved from fashion and textile design into mural work, why Petrina stepped back from painting to rebuild her branding business, and how both of them navigate the tension between following new ideas and knowing when something is actually worth pursuing. We also get into the less glamorous side of creative careers, inconsistent income, burnout, rejection, overthinking, working for free, and the challenge of putting yourself out there when there’s no guarantee things will work. Jaz shares how she tracks opportunities, applications, and rejection rates in spreadsheets, while Petrina talks about evolving from painting into branding work, and how she’s learned to build creative businesses that genuinely fit the way she wants to work and live Something I loved about this conversation was hearing how differently people approach ideas. Some ideas are fleeting experiments, some become careers, some need to be tested properly before you know whether they’re sustainable or simply a curiosity. We talk about why creative people are often drawn toward multiple paths at once, the pressure to “niche down,” and why sometimes the best thing you can do is give yourself permission to try something without knowing exactly where it will lead. This episode also veered into a conversation about friendship and creative support systems - the value of having people around you who understand the realities of creative work, people who can workshop ideas with you, and can also tell you the truth when you need to hear it. You can find Petrina Jose here on instagram and also on her personal page here . and her website here at www.heartsandeyes.com You can find Jamsine Kroeze here on instagram and her website here : jasminekroeze.com You can find the podcast her e on Instagram & here on substack Thanks so much for listening! Feel free to rate, review & share if you enjoyed it, this helps other people find the show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, I'm joined by three of the women behind Sunny Studios : painter Rachael Mayne , artist Hannah Radford, and interior stylist Julia Fowler , to talk about what it really looks and feels like to build and sustain a shared creative space. We talk about how they found their large originally unglamorous space and why that was actually a smart move. What I hadn't expected going into this conversation was how much the shared space has changed each of their individual practices. All three talk about confidence; the kind that comes from having people around you who genuinely love your work, who'll give you honest feedback on a painting, and who will talk you down from an anxious spiral before it takes hold. Rach reflects on how working alongside others helped her lean into her biggest and boldest work yet. Hannah talks about learning through osmosis- watching an entire exhibition come together from the inside. Julia speaks about the shift of actually going to work, and what that has meant for how she shows up in her business and how her kids understand what she does. We also talk about how they divide the space and costs, how admin mostly takes care of itself, the value of growing slowly and carefully, and why the personality fit between studio members matters more than you'd think. You can find Rachael Mayne on her website and on Instagram . You can find our earlier chat on anxiety here You can find Hannah Radford on her website and on Instagram . You can find Julia Fowler on her website and on Instagram . You can find Sunny Studios on Instagram . Thanks so much for listening, if this one resonated, send it to a creative friend who might need to hear it. And feel free to rate, review and share if you enjoyed it. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week I'm talking to Col Mac, a Brisbane-based interdisciplinary artist whose practice is grounded in painting but regularly extends into text, sculpture, and installation. His work explores time, place, memory, and history. Col has been a finalist in the Archibald Prize and the Brisbane Portrait Prize, with work featured in The New York Times and the Washington Post. In this conversation we're focused on critique; the different forms it's taken across Col's practice, from design briefs and university critique sessions, to the regular group he's kept going with artist friends since graduating, to the more public feedback loop of prize entries and outdoor projections. We get into what happens when you action too much feedback at once, how to filter voices without shutting them out, and why a second set of eyes sometimes surfaces something in your work that you couldn't yet name yourself. Find Col Mac here on instagram and here on his website. You can find the podcast her e on Instagram & here on substack Thanks so much for listening! Feel free to rate, review & share if you enjoyed it, this helps other people find the show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, I'm joined by West Australian painter Wendy Marinich . We discuss what it actually looks like to build a body of work when you're in the middle of figuring it all out. Wendy came to painting a few years ago, after careers in floristry, catering, and working as a pasta maker at a well-known Perth restaurant. In that relatively short time, she's developing a practice that has a cohesive feel to it, full of mid-century warmth, bold colour, and a real sense of considered intent. I've been watching her work evolve for a while now, and I wanted to bring her on to talk about the process behind that, not from a place of looking back, but from right inside it. We talk about where ideas begin for Wendy; that moment of instant clarity she had when she walked into her sister-in-law's house and saw a collection of vintage glass arranged by colour, and knew that was her next exhibition. We get into what happens when you have a clear concept but your instincts start pulling you somewhere else mid-series, and how she uses her body of work as a deliberate skills-building exercise. We also talk about the role of commissions, painting one-offs versus series, working on multiple pieces simultaneously, and why this year, for the first time, she decided not to book her exhibition before finishing the work. Find Wendy Marinich here on Instagram and her website You can find the podcast her e on Instagram & here on substack Thanks so much for listening! Feel free to rate, review and share if you enjoyed it, it really does help other people find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today I'm talking with sisters Kass and Lauren Hernandez, the fibre artists behind Crossing Threads . This was an interesting conversation about what creative strategy actually looks like in practice; the real, week to week decisions that go into building a sustainable creative practice. Kass and Lauren are first generation Australians of Filipino heritage, living and working on Wangal and Gadigal Land in Sydney. They create one of a kind fibre and textile artworks; tapestries, woven pieces, soft sculptures, and framed textiles for both residential and commercial spaces. We talk about their weekly WIP structure (which they complete on Fridays and come back to fresh on Mondays), how they use Slack to communicate across the business, and why they time-track everything using Toggl. We get into how they filter every opportunity through a set of ROIs; financial gain, brand positioning, exposure, relationships, community, and creative growth; and why saying no is one of the most valuable things they do. We also chat about what it means to work with your sister, navigating feedback, dealing with imposter syndrome, and how becoming mothers was ultimately the catalyst for going full-time. This is one of those conversations that made me want to take notes! I hope you get as much out of it as I did. We mentioned a lot of different systems and tools in this one and you’ll find a complete list on the Substack post here. Find Kass and Lauren here on their website and here on Instagram . You can find the podcast her e on Instagram & here on substack Thanks so much for listening! Feel free to rate, review and share if you enjoyed it, it really does help other people find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sophie Vander is back, and this time we're going straight to your questions. Since Sophie's first appearance on the podcast back in August 2024, I have had a lot of follow up questions come in- it seems you had so much more you wanted to hear from her. So did I! Sophie is the founder and director of Curatorial+Co, a Sydney-based contemporary art gallery and consultancy on William Street in Woolloomooloo. She works with a stable of 45+ artists (80% of whom are female-identifying), leads a team of 11, and juggles gallery exhibitions, an art consultancy arm, and international art fairs, all at the same time. In this episode we cover a lot of ground, from the work Sophie saw at Art SG that completely stopped her in her tracks, to how she picks artists for international fairs, what actually puts her off an artist, and where she goes looking for new talent. We talk about the art market right now, honestly and practically, and what that means if you're an emerging artist trying to sell work. We chat about the gallery relationship; including the one thing she says almost never happens when artists come to her about representation, but really should. Links and people mentioned: Curatorial+Co website: curatorialandco.com Curatorial+Co on Instagram: @curatorialandco Morgan Stokes: morganstok.es | @morganstok.es Theresa Hunt: @theresahuntartist Simon Cardwell: @cardwell.simon Lynn Savery: lynnsavery.com.au | @lino_savery Sophie Vander on the Build Beautiful podcast - here Sophie's first appearance on The Creative Kind: August 2024 episode Artworks that Sophie Mentioned: Citra Sasmite at Art SG Marina Abramović at Art SG For a more complete list- please check out the substack post here If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with an artist friend, it genuinely helps other people find the show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode I’m talking with painter Alyssa Monks about how feedback, both internal and external, shapes an artist’s work and confidence. We explore what kinds of critique have helped her over her career and how she learned to distinguish useful feedback from noise. Alyssa shares how critical comments that bother you can sometimes be the most revealing. We also dive into the psychological side of creativity: transforming your inner critic from an adversary into a problem-solving partner, trusting your own vision while staying open to perspective, and why asking who you ask for feedback matters. Alyssa reflects on navigating personal and professional critiques, choosing when to ask for input, and why hope and curiosity are essential ingredients in the studio. You can find Alyssa here at her website: alyssamonks.com , Here on instagram And here on Patreon Video Available here: If you'd like to watch this conversation, you can find selected episodes of The Creative Kind on YouTube and on Substack . Later this year I should be able to publish videos on Apple and Spotify and will update this feed then too. Just search The Creative Kind Podcast or follow the link in the show notes to watch the full interview with Alyssa. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, I’m joined by artist and writer Diana Weymar, whose practice involves textiles, language, and collective participation. Diana is best known for the Tiny Pricks Project, an ongoing body of embroidered text works responding to political language, poetry, and cultural moments. We talk about what it means to make and share work when the world feels overwhelming, and how artists decide what deserves their attention. Diana speaks about translating words into thread, the difference between reacting and observing, and why slowness can be a powerful artistic tool in a fast-moving information landscape. We also discuss criticism, community, and the tension between wanting to speak out and recognising you can’t respond to everything. Diana shares how the project evolved from a small personal experiment into a global participatory archive of over 5,000 pieces, and why she’s comfortable letting a project change shape over time. This conversation explores political art, creative responsibility, and the quiet but profound impact of making something by hand. We talk about uncertainty, nuance, and the idea that art doesn’t always need to resolve issues, sometimes it simply holds space for them. Find Diana Weymar here on instagram and also over at @tinypricksproject and her website here at www.tinypricksproject.com You can find the podcast her e on Instagram & here on substack Thanks so much for listening! Feel free to rate, review & share if you enjoyed it, this helps other people find the show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, I’m joined by landscape painter Debbie Mackenzie, who lives and works on Victoria’s Mornington Peninsula. Debbie shares how her paintings grow out of the places she spends time in, and how her ideas evolve naturally as she works toward a solo exhibition. We talk about what it means to build a body of work rather than individual paintings, and how each piece can influence the next. Debbie explains her unusual process of photographing inspiration and then never looking at the images again, relying instead on memory and feeling to guide her compositions. We also get into the realities behind the scenes; logistics, deadlines, long studio days, balancing family life, financial gaps between shows, and the emotional comedown that can happen after finishing a major series. Debbie also reflects on consistency, why she rarely changes her palette, and how small shifts like music or brushes can spark experimentation without disrupting cohesion. You can find Debbie on instagram here , her website here: www.debbiemackenzieart.com She is represented by SYDNEY - Michael Reid Gallery - Southern Highland s & Michael Reid Northern Beaches MELBOURNE - Kelli Lundberg Gallery You can find the podcast her e on Instagram & here on substack Thanks so much for listening! Feel free to rate, review & share if you enjoyed it, this helps other people find the show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, I’m joined by Sydney based curator, writer, and artist mentor Amber Creswell Bell to talk about what it really means to be an artist right now, particularly in a slower market. Amber brings a broad perspective from working closely with emerging artists, running a national art prize, curating exhibitions, and spending years inside the commercial gallery system. We discuss what artists can focus on when sales slow, how to think more strategically about your practice, and why relying on luck alone rarely leads to sustainable outcomes. We talk about treating your art practice as a small business, understanding your audience, and using social media with intention rather than comparison. Amber shares her thoughts on what artists often spend too much energy on, how to research galleries and opportunities more effectively, and why being visible doesn’t have to mean chasing every trend. We also discuss the role of networking and community, the importance of finding a distinct visual language, and how art prizes can help artists build confidence, credibility, and new connections. Find Amber here on her website or here on instagram You can find the booking link here Upcoming Masterclasses: MELBOURNE 13th March SYDNEY 28th March POMONA (Sunshine Coast) 29th April BYRON BAY 30th April BRISBANE 20th June CANBERRA: to be announced soon You can find the podcast her e on Instagram & here on substack Thanks so much for listening! Feel free to rate, review & share if you enjoyed it, this helps other people find the show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.