The Discomfort Zone

On her birthday, Amy Bowers Cordalis was handed a detonator wired to a dam on the Klamath River and told to stomp on it as hard as she could. In this episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna Levesque, former professional whitewater kayaker and founder of Mind Body Paddle, talks with Amy Bowers Cordalis: Yurok attorney, executive director of Ridges to Riffles Indigenous Conservation Group, UN Champions of the Earth laureate, and author of The Water Remembers. Her family fought for the Klamath and its salmon for six generations, from fish protests to the removal of four dams. What does it take to win a six-generation fight nobody thought you could win? Amy shares the courage, faith, tenacity, and humor it took, and what she found by walking straight through the door of fear. If you need an uplifting river story right now, this episode is for you. In this episode: Her grandmother and great-grandmother facing down armed federal marshals from a rowboat, with granny panties tied to the net and a prayer song The 2002 fish kill that sent Amy to law school The Yurok worldview of balance and responsibility that fueled generations of resistance What her niece Keeya Wiki's first descent of the free-flowing Klamath means after 170 years of fighting Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

Sommerville Johnston brought a rubber band to this recording. Stretched, it is the discomfort zone. Pulled further, it snaps. How much stress resilience do you have before you snap? Sommerville Johnston is a licensed professional counselor, somatic experiencing practitioner, wilderness guide, and founder of Aspen Roots Collective. She joins Anna Levesque, former professional whitewater kayaker and founder of Mind Body Paddle, on The Discomfort Zone Podcast to talk about growing stress resilience and regulating your nervous system, on and off the water. If you've been running at a higher level of stress than usual, this one is for you. In this episode: The difference between the stress that is growing you and the stress that is about to take you out The back body practice for nervous system regulation you can do while you listen Why Anna stepped back from hard whitewater mid career, and what was different when she came back to Class IV Strategies for not letting perfectionism run or ruin you A replay from The Discomfort Zone Podcast 2023 archives. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

She told everyone in the eddy she was only going to ferry. When she peeled out, she was shocked by what happened next. The whitewater decision making strategy that Anna Levesque, former professional whitewater kayaker and founder of Mind Body Paddle, got from Clay Wright years ago sounded strange. In this solo episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast she works out why it became the perfect strategy to come back from her back injury to surf Garburator, her favorite big wave of all time. If you're the type who puts a lot of pressure on yourself to perform and prepare, but then find that nerves get the best of you in the moment, this episode is for you. In this episode: The moment Anna realized she was observing herself making a different choice than she had planned When to decide to commit and when to stay curious What Clay says to paddlers before running a river How to support others in making good decisions Listen now and take your whitewater decision making to the next level, both on and off the water.

What does ego have to do with confidence in kayaking? Benny Marr, one of the best big wave and expedition paddlers in the world, has a surprising answer that will help you discern whether to run a challenging rapid or walk away. In this conversation from 2024 on The Discomfort Zone Podcast with Anna Levesque, Benny goes into how he has used his ego for both 'good' and 'evil' in kayaking, and what that has taught him along the way. If you have ever wondered who you're actually paddling for, this one is for you. In this episode: Why it's important to discern between being self-confident and self-conscious Where he feels nerves in his body, and the strategies he uses to focus How he approaches instruction and helps his clients progress in kayaking The strategies he and his crews have used to reach their goals. This is one of the most downloaded episodes of The Discomfort Zone podcast with lots of stories from Benny about running big whitewater with top paddlers all over the world. Benny also turns 40 this week - so great timing for a re-release! Tune in to learn from one of the best and most grounded paddlers in the world.

What do you do when you are the only thing between you and the line you know you can run? Abby Holcombe, world champion freestyle kayaker, four-time USA national champion, and three-time USA team member, joins Anna Levesque on The Discomfort Zone Podcast to talk about the fear she knows is irrational, but still gets in the way. This conversation is a replay, and since it first aired, Abby has joined the Mind Body Paddle team as Content and Marketing Coordinator. We're thrilled for her to join the team, and bring the authenticity, courage, self-awareness and experience you hear in this conversation to our work. If you have ever talked yourself out of something you were ready for, or spent sometime cry-yaking, this one is for you. In this episode: The three hours Abby spent scouting Lava Falls before she ran it a twelve years old Why she hiked her boat into Oh Be Joyful and then hiked back out What she started filming after noticing every river beta video she watched was of men The mantra she picked up after winning Worlds and getting torn apart on Instagram What it was like to live van-life as a kid, and adventure-life as a family Listen now if you want a reminder of how to get out of your own way and stay true to yourself.

How do you break through the resistance to doing the things you know will build your confidence, but you're afraid of doing them? In this solo episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna Levesque, former professional whitewater kayaker and founder of Mind Body Paddle, takes on the hard truth that more confidence, more skill, and more joy all live on the other side of the stuff you're avoiding. The roll is the obvious example. Most paddlers know they need to practice it, but too often, put it off for months, even years. Anna shares the story of facilitating her first adventure week, and the joy she re-discovered when she was pushed into unexpected new experiences. Find out how her client went from saying she would absolutely not whitewater kayak to then giggling joyfully at the bottom of every rapid. In this episode you'll explore: The importance of recognizing the pattern of resistance What resistance Anna had to overcome to break out of her comfort zone How kindness and challenge work together in the same container Why courage is easier to find when you're in community with others 🎧 Whether you're resisting your roll, a rapid or a move (on or off the water), tune in to get inspiration for breaking through and finding more joy and confidence.

How do you settle your nerves when the pressure is on and everyone is watching? In this episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Bryan Kirk, a former member US Freestyle Kayak Team member and Worlds medalist who has taken social media by storm with his old school boats and tricks, claims that once a paddler has the skill set, performance is 95 percent about keeping the mind under control. He walks us through the visualization and breathing practices he has used for two decades, and shares the story of how his performance fell apart at one of the most important competitions of his life. What he took from that day changed how he has approached pressure ever since. If you've ever trained hard, prepared well, and then watched your mind come apart the moment it counted, this one is for you. In this episode, Anna and Bryan explore: Why your mind is your biggest limiting factor, not your skill The awareness and breathing sequence Bryan uses before anything that scares him Hard moves in easy water for the mind, and why mental training deserves the same hours as skills training The strategy that allows him to throw down linked cartwheels at age 47 without getting hurt Whether you're chasing your first reliable roll, coming back from an injury, or figuring out how to keep paddling for the next thirty years, this conversation will provide you with strategy and training tips. 🎧 Listen now, and start working your mental agility on and off the water.

What does it actually take to lead a team, run an international guiding business, and still choose the hard line when it would be easier to stay comfortable? Juliet Jacobsen Kastorff is co-founder of Endless River Adventures, owner of Rio Quijos Ecolodge in Ecuador, and founder of the nonprofit Need More Outdoors. She's been teaching and guiding whitewater kayaking in Western North Carolina and internationally since 1991. On this episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna Levesque talks with Juliet about leadership, building a guiding business that outlasts you, and staying uncomfortable on purpose after three decades in the outdoor industry. This conversation is really about what it means to lead well: building a team you can eventually hand things off to, taking responsibility instead of making excuses, and noticing when your own expertise has quietly turned into a comfort zone. If you lead a team, run a business, or coach others and want to hear how a 30-year industry veteran keeps growing instead of coasting, this one is for you. In this episode, you'll explore: Why staying in your comfort zone as an expert, running the same line or the same rapid, can quietly stall your growth How Juliet builds leaders who could replace her, and why that's the goal, not the threat The hotel industry lesson that changed how she handles mistakes and hard conversations Why "a bad moment, not a bad day" changes how you show up after things go wrong What three decades of guiding in Ecuador, Costa Rica, and Chile taught her about community over ego. Whether you're leading a business, coaching a team, or just trying to get comfortable being uncomfortable again, this conversation will meet you there. Listen now, and start noticing where your own comfort zone might be holding you back.

What do you do when fear shows up and your instinct is to either force your way through or quit altogether? In this episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna talks with Sara Hunter, a licensed clinical mental health counselor, certified emotionally focused couples therapist, and PMBIA Level 1 mountain bike instructor based in Asheville, NC. Sara takes clients out of the office and onto the trail, using mountain biking to help them notice what's happening in their bodies, name what they're feeling, and practice new ways of responding to fear. This conversation is really about the skill of slowing down, and why the smallest step toward what scares you is often the most courageous one. If you tend to white-knuckle your way through hard things, or freeze when the pressure is on, this one is for you. In this episode, you'll explore: Why slowing down and naming what's happening in your body changes how you respond to fear What titration means, and how to break an intimidating goal into steps your nervous system can actually handle Why beginners often grow more on the trail than seasoned athletes, and why sitting still is the real discomfort zone for adventurers How the rhythm of pedaling and scanning the trail calms the body's threat response The surprising link between perfectionism and the courage to ask a clarifying question Whether you're eyeing a rapid you've been walking around, a trail feature that gets in your head, or a hard conversation you keep putting off, this episode offers a kinder and more effective way through. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts!

What does it mean to paddle a river your family fought six generations to free? This week marks the one-year anniversary of the historic first descent of the undammed Klamath River by Indigenous youth in the Paddle Tribal Waters program. To honor it, Anna is replaying her conversation on The Discomfort Zone Podcast with Keeya Wiki, a Yurok kayaker who completed that first descent at 17. Keeya also belongs to the Te Aupouri and Ngati Porou tribes of Aotearoa (New Zealand), and her family has fought for generations for the health of the salmon, the river, and their right to fish. This conversation is about joy as resilience, and what happens when the healing of a river becomes the healing of the generations connected to it. If you love rivers and want to understand what dam removal and Indigenous-led restoration mean for the people who fought for it, this one is for you. In this episode, Keeya and Anna explore: What it felt like to paddle the Klamath after generations of advocacy for dam removal How Keeya listens to her body and grounds herself when fear and self-doubt show up The intense underwater moment on the river that tested her self-trust The power of community, mentorship, and representation in outdoor spaces Why the joy Keeya experienced on the river has the power to heal generations Since this conversation, Anna has read The Water Remembers by Amy Bowers Cordalis, Keeya's aunt and the lawyer who played a key role in getting the Klamath dams removed. Amy joins The Discomfort Zone Podcast later this summer, and you may have seen Amy and Keeya together on the Kelly Clarkson Show sharing their family's legacy. Consider this replay the first chapter of that story. Whether you paddle whitewater, care about river restoration, or simply want to hear what courage and joy sound like, listen now and let the Klamath's story move you.

What does it actually take to train your brain for courage, and can you do it while running a 13-mile hike-in class V expedition and going back to school full-time? In this replay episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna Levesque revisits her conversation with Anna Wagner: whitewater paddler, explorer, and Dr of Occupational Therapy, whose approach to courage is equal parts science and grit. Anna Wagner has run the Middle Kings, the Stikine, and the Rio Baker, and has a knack for finding her "mean girl" voice exactly when she needs it most. This is a conversation about what courage actually looks like when it's built deliberately, not borrowed from someone else's highlight reel. If you've ever wondered why hard things feel so hard, and how to keep showing up for them anyway, this one is for you. How neuroplasticity works — and why positive self-talk feels fake before it feels true Anna's "mean girl" strategy for cutting through fear and self-doubt mid-rapid Why chunking big adventures into small steps is the same skill as running a rapid How one piece of advice from a professor changed Anna's lifestyle and her performance Whether you're preparing for a big river objective, navigating a major life transition, or just trying to quiet the voice that says you don't belong here, this conversation will give you something real to work with. 🎧 Listen now and start building the neural pathways that bring you back to your best.

Sage Donnelly just became the Queen of the North Fork, and it's the perfect time to revisit our 2024 conversation on The Discomfort Zone Podcast, recorded when she was the reigning Women's Freestyle World Champion. Sage is a multi-discipline competitor across slalom, freestyle, and extreme racing. In this conversation, she breaks down how she trained her mind to find calm and flow at the start line and in the biggest rapids she runs. If you've ever choked under pressure on something that mattered, or wondered how the best in the world stay loose when everything's on the line, this one's for you. How Sage went from competing out of fear and expectation to competing with the kind of relaxed confidence that brought her back to the World Championship podium Why feeling a rapid in your boat matters more than overanalyzing it from the eddy The expedition that taught her she could push further than she thought possible How she manages type 1 diabetes, celiac disease, and hypothyroidism without letting any of it define her Whether you're chasing a competitive goal, learning to trust your gut, or navigating a diagnosis that feels bigger than you, Sage's story has something for you. 🎧 Listen to the replay now.

Ever feel like you need the perfect plan before you can start anything? This conversation might change that. In this episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna sits down with Chris Baer, a raft guide and whitewater kayaker who lives half the year out of a converted school bus and spends his winters chasing first descents in remote corners of the world, often with little more than two weeks' notice. This conversation is for anyone who's ever held back because they didn't have it all figured out yet. Anna and Chris dig into: 🌫️ Why whitewater is "all gray," and how letting go of rigid rules opens up better decisions 🧩 How problem-solving on the fly becomes a way of life, on the river and off ✈️ What happens when you trade a five-year plan for two weeks' notice and a plane ticket 👣 Why getting feet on the ground beats overanalyzing every detail in advance If you're craving more confidence in navigating the unknown, this one's worth a listen. 🎧 Listen now wherever you get your podcasts!

What if the language you've been using to help people is actually underselling them? In this solo episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna Levesque shares a perspective shift that stopped her in her tracks: after 25 years of building a brand around "empowering women," she's retiring the phrase. Sparked by Emma Grede's book Start With Yourself, Anna explores why the word "empowerment" may inadvertently suggest women need someone else to give them what they already have. This episode isn't about tearing down a movement. It's about getting more honest and more precise about what great coaching, instruction, and community actually do: create the container, hold the space, and trust that the person in front of you already has what it takes. If you've ever questioned the language you use, wrestled with a belief that served you well and then stopped, or wondered what it really means to support someone's growth, this one is for you. In this episode: Why Anna is dropping "women's empowerment" from her brand vocabulary after 25 years The real role of a coach, instructor, or mentor, and why it matters how we frame it What her year-long recovery from a herniated disc taught her about inner strength and being supported How to hold an idea you've outgrown with both honesty and self-compassion Why changing your language is an act of courage, not correction Whether you're a coach, a paddler, or someone mid-shift in how you see your own work, this episode will give you something worth sitting with. 🎧 Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

What does it take to help someone do something they're afraid to do? In this episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna sits down with Casey Bryant Jones, Director of the Ottawa Kayak School, for a conversation that gets into the real inner game of learning whitewater kayaking. Casey has spent years teaching paddlers of all levels on one of the world's premier big-water rivers, and he gets specific about fear, confidence, and what it actually means to succeed on the water. This is a conversation about what happens in the space between what you think you can do and what you're actually capable of doing. If you paddle whitewater at any level and want to build more confidence on the water, this one is for you. In this episode: Why flipping and rolling is a superpower, not a failure (and why the students who flip most often are the ones who progress fastest) The "ramp up, ramp back down" approach that Casey uses to find the right level of challenge without breaking a student's confidence The breathing technique a mentor taught him in Chile that he still uses today Why he and his wife have introduced their young daughters to whitewater kayaking even though it can be uncomfortable and scary 🌊 Whether you're working on your roll, developing your skills on the water, or building confidence, this one is worth your full attention. 🎧 Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

Have you ever had a "stupid, hare-brained idea" that worked so well it took over your life for a decade? That's exactly what happened to James Byrd when he looked at the North Fork of the Payette River in Idaho, thought about his college football stadium experience, and decided the best kayakers in the world should be racing it in front of a crowd. What started as a passion project became one of the premier whitewater extreme races on the planet, the North Fork Championship, and now, after a few years away, James and his wife Regan are bringing it back. James is also a registered nurse, a lifelong paddler, and one of the most genuinely stoked people I know. This conversation went a lot of places I didn't expect, and I think you'll appreciate it. In this episode: The visualization practice James uses before stepping up to something big and scary on the water, and why he won't send it until he genuinely feels ready What it was like to get pushback when he first launched the event, and the one moment that changed everything Why he thinks kayaking athletes deserve to be known, not just watched, and what he's doing about it The real talk on money, sustainability, and what he and Regan discovered when they did the math on their nursing wages versus the hours they put into North Fork How going nonprofit is changing what's possible for the event's future If you've ever poured everything into something you believed in, hit friction, and wondered whether it was worth it, this one's for you. 🎧 Listen now and walk away thinking differently about what it actually costs to build something worth having, in paddling and in life.

What does it take to keep going when everything around you — the sport, the culture, the system — says this isn't your place? At the age of 13, Naina Adhikari made her way to the Ganga River, 300 km from her home village to start learning how to whitewater kayak. She couldn't swim, and was the only girl on the river with no female mentors to turn to. Although she faced many obstacles, she persisted. Naina has since represented India at the World Championships and Olympic qualifiers, won the Ganga Kayak Festival twice, and founded Ganga Girls and the Pravahini Foundation, projects that train Indian female kayakers, and that bring survivors of human trafficking to the river, and to paddling, to experience freedom, strength, and community. This is a conversation for anyone who has ever had to find their footing in a world that wasn't built for them. In this episode: The real off-river challenges of being the only woman in a male-dominated sport inside a traditional culture What Naina had to navigate alone, and why she stayed anyway The story behind Ganga Girls and Project Shakti What big volume water on the Ganga teaches about presence and showing up every day Naina's legacy word is "revolutionary." After listening, you'll understand why.

Why do some paddlers make moves look effortless while others keep missing them by inches? And when did you last give up on a move you could have made? In this solo episode, Anna shares what two recent private instruction clients discovered that changed everything: looking where you want to go isn't as natural as it sounds, especially when something intimidating downstream is pulling your eyes away. Anna connects this paddling fundamental to the bigger picture, including how her dream of leading a whitewater paddling and Ayurveda trip to India went from a casual idea shared in a Reboot and Refuel Reset to a sold-out reality, and how her own back recovery required the same commitment to vision over time. In this episode, you'll explore: Why looking ahead is a learnable skill that takes practice How committing your vision changes your angle, and your outcome The real reason we give up on moves, goals, and dreams too soon Why sustainability means keeping your eye on the goal even after things start going well This episode is for anyone who knows where they want to go but keeps getting pulled into distraction and worry, or gets stuck in tunnel vision, looking only at what's right in front of you (aka your bow). 🎧 Listen now and start paddling toward what matters.

Ann Gillard saw a gap in the paddling community and did what any good river person would do: she gathered her crew and got on the water to build a space where people can actually show up as themselves. Ann is an ACA Level 4 whitewater kayak instructor, NRS ambassador, and founder of Pride Day on the River, a volunteer-led event on the Deerfield River in Massachusetts dedicated to LGBTQ+ visibility and participation in paddle sports. It draws over 150 people for a community paddle, beginner clinics, affinity group paddling, and one of the most joyful after-parties on the river. In this episode, Anna and Ann explore: The discomfort zone continuum — how Ann uses body cues to distinguish her comfort zone, panic zone, and the growth space in between The 51% rule — Ann's personal metric for deciding when a rapid is worth running, and why purpose matters more than peer pressure Ego and the river — when ego is a useful push, when it gets in the way, and how to tell the difference Building genuinely inclusive spaces — what it actually looks like to create a container where people can show up as themselves, not as who the sport expects them to be Ann's favorite river metaphor — she shares one in rapid fire that will make you see rivers and community completely differently Cleaning up your mistakes — the courage it takes to own an error in front of a group, and why that moment of accountability can build more trust than getting it right the first time If any of this is resonating — hit play. This one stays with you.