Design Systems WTF

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. A few years ago everyone started talking about how AI-powered interfaces are going to start generating UI on the fly. But how close is that from being a reality? Have there been any advances towards it being a mainstream thing? And what do we need to know from a design systems perspective to cater towards it? Show notes Rachel-Lee Nabors — "Death of the Browser" — the talk that sparked the topic ChatGPT Apps SDK — the plugin-style generative UI route, with Booking.com among the launch partners Interactive apps in Claude (MCP Apps) — the Anthropic equivalent A2UI — Google's declarative spec letting agents send UI as component descriptions rather than executing code The Complete Guide to Generative UI Frameworks in 2026 — a rundown of the generative UI framework landscape, covering A2UI, CopilotKit/AG-UI, MCP Apps and more NN/g's 10 Usability Heuristics — the "codified best practice" comparison Geri Reid — the Converge US talk — Geri’s talk about flexibility and NewsKit Get in touch Luke on Bluesky Michelle on Bluesky

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. We really screwed the pooch when it came to naming design systems. Why is the name so bad? And should we call it something else? Or should we bin the whole concept of design systems and start over in a completely decommodified way? Show notes NASA Graphics Standards Manual — the classic design handbook Luke references A Pattern Language — Christopher Alexander's town planning/architecture book Apple Human Interface Guidelines Atomic Design — Brad Frost's original article, which credits the earlier pattern library work Anna Debenham and Laura Kalbag — referenced in that article as part of the origins Co-op Experience Library — Co-op's renamed design system; their follow-up post explains they changed the name because "design system" implies it's only for designers, which backs up the whole episode thesis Co-op Digital Blog Valve's Handbook for New Employees — the famously flat, no-job-titles structure Luke half-remembers (it was Valve, not Epic) Luke on Bluesky Michelle on Bluesky

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Agentic is the buzz word of the moment - but what does it actually mean for design systems? Luke and Michelle have a real conversation about what's hype, what's possible, and where they see it all going. Show notes Luke's webinar on automating documentation — the session covering the facts / distilled / authored buckets TJ Pitre / Southleft — doing agentic design system work (also behind FigmaLint with Brad and Ian Frost) Sil Bormüller — founder of Into Design Systems Romina Kavčič — The Design System Guide — the knowledge-graph-to-pattern work Luke describes Design System Documentation Spec (DSDS) — what you're auditing zeroheight docs against Obsidian and Roam Research — knowledge-graph tools mentioned by Michelle The Information Architecture Conference — Michelle's conference, which usually runs a knowledge graphs workshop n8n — Luke's stacked-agents automation instance Claude Code — used in Luke's Figma-MCP-to-code component flow zeroheight MCP — for the docs-as-context part of that flow Paper — mentioned by Mark in chat for better HTML output Pencil — design-as-code tool with .pen files Penpot — the open-source, web-dev-structured design tool Get in touch Luke on Bluesky Michelle on Bluesky

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. We're all in agreement that UX Research and design systems should work hand in hand. But how do you actually get this to work in practice? How can UX Researchers and design systems folks work best together? What cadence should you be doing things? And should you be included research findings as part of your design system documentation? Show notes Design System Documentation Spec (DSDS) zeroheight MCP zeroheight MCP overview (help docs) Design Systems WTF #39 — Should designers know how to code? zeroheight Design Systems Report Luke on Bluesky Michelle on Bluesky

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Governance seems to be one of those fancy words that gets thrown around a lot by design system people - but what level of governance is actually worthwhile, and how much of it is theater? Michelle and Luke will dive into governance, what level is good enough, and what bits they think you should scrap. Show notes Brad Frost's governance flowchart — the component approval flow Michelle borrowed and adapted: A Design System Governance Process . Also available as a Figma community file , and his lighter-touch follow-up: Master design system governance with this one weird trick Nathan Curtis on governance and contribution — his writing on contribution models referenced in the episode: Contributions to Design Systems and Team Models for Scaling a Design System Managing Chaos: Digital Governance by Design by Lisa Welchman — Michelle's book recommendation for adding process in a way that isn't "gross", with a historical look at how web governance emerged: Rosenfeld Media Org Design for Design Orgs by Peter Merholz & Kristin Skinner — Luke's companion-piece recommendation on ritual and process for design teams, transferable to design systems: petermerholz.com / O'Reilly Big Vape: The Rise and Fall of Juul — the Netflix documentary on Juul and "how not to do a startup": Netflix

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Config 2026 happened in San Francisco last week, so we got together straight after the announcements to discuss what the announcements mean for design systems folks - from code on the canvas, to agents, skills, and connectors, to Figma Motion. What will these announcements mean for the work we do day to day? Show notes Blog post - What do the Config 2026 announcements mean for design systems?

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Adoption has been the perennial curse of design systems. Always a problem, never quite fixed, and loads of opinions about how to do it. But are we approaching it in the right way? Michelle and Luke talk about the problem with how adoption has been positioned, whether it's a tactical or cultural thing, and whether the goal should sit with design systems teams or the wider org. Show notes Design Systems are Dead. Long Live Design Systems

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. The State of AI in Design Systems report came out recently, and it shows that everyone is using AI to create documentation. Is this a good thing? Luke and Seb dive into the question of what good documentation is, whether it's even relevant anymore and what parts we should let AI own, and the parts we need to protect.

Is Figma holding design systems back? Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. It's the month before Config! So we're diving into a spicy topic - is Figma helping or hindering design systems? Is the future of design systems a world where Figma doesn't exist? Or are design tools like Figma essential for the work we do in design systems day to day? Show notes Figma Weave (acquisition / launch) Figma Make Kits announcement The State of AI in Design Systems (zeroheight) Design Systems Report 2025 (zeroheight) UX Tools Design Tools Survey Converge (zeroheight) Luke Murphy on Bluesky Michelle Chin on Bluesky

Episode 54 - How do you make developers to care about your design system? Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Getting developers interested in the design system still seems to be a challenge for a lot of design system teams in 2026. So how do you get them interested in what you're doing? Do you need to bribe them with snacks? Luke and Michelle discuss ways to get engineers on board, why it's essential, and common pitfalls with design systems sans developers. Show notes None this week

Episode #53 - Is a design system mandate worth fighting for? Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. The Design System Report this year suggested that the number one thing design system teams with low adoption rates were missing was a company mandate. However, is that really the thing you should be fighting for? Or is your time better spent focusing on something else? Luke and Michelle will dive into what actually drives good adoption, and whether a mandate is just a wolf in sheep's clothing. Show notes Design System Report 2026 Design System Report webinar on Adoption Design System Report webinar on Resourcing The Question Redwoods Community Zeroheight Case Studies

Episode 52 - Does your design system need a PM? Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Time for the hot takes - do design systems need product management? Or is it something that just gets in the way and stops work happening? Show notes Design System Report 2026 Amy Hupe

Episode 51 - What do you actually test? Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Once you've done a first pass on anything in your design system, how do you validate it? Do you create complicated automated tests to ensure absolute consistency? Or do you even put it in front of real people to make sure it works? Show notes Rocket Surgery Made Easy by Steve Krug AXE MCP server Tetralogical - a great accessibility agency

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Now we're in the business of creating context for AI (ew), what is actually important when we're creating documentation that will be used by machines AND humans? Are detailed component guidelines important? Are the foundations essential to get right? Or can we rely on top-level patterns and vague guidance? Show notes How LLMs use MCPs to read your design system and how to write prompts that work with that Product Deep Dive Webinar: MCP, vibe coding, and your design system PDF of A Pattern Language by Christopher Alexander et al. Google Prompting Essentials course on Coursera Marketing Against the Grain podcast AI and Design Systems course with Brad Frost, Ian Frost and TJ Pitre TJ Pitre on LinkedIn Dom Nguyen on LinkedIn Sil Bormüller on LinkedIn

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Design systems kill creativity, right? We've heard that said so many times. But are we actually taking the time to inject joy into the system itself? Not only considering it as a part of the process for what we include in the system, but also in how we do documentation, release notes, and general communication around the design system? Or controversially... is it even important? Show notes Luke’s article on delighting in design systems Societe Generale release notes article Aaron Walter’s Heirarchy of User Needs The socks component in Gitlab’s Pyjamas design system

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Set the scene - you've joined a new company as a product designer or engineer, and you're confronted with a massive system, with custom naming and opaque decisions. Queue anxiety. So how do we make our design systems easy to understand, and make them a strength for onboarding new joiners? Show notes Amy’s talk about jargon zh’s AI features

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. It's time to peer into the crystal ball and predict what's coming up for design systems this year and further out. Will AI take all our jobs? Are design systems becoming a thing of the past? Will we finally kill all creativity? Or are we still plodding along to general adoption? Show notes No show notes this episode!

Design system folks seem to be prone to burnout, arguments, and generally feeling underappreciated within their organizations. What makes design systems folks so prone to being loaded with additional weight? We discuss why this happens, as well as some strategies to overcome it. Show Notes Amy Hupe – "Burn baby burnout" (based on her Converge Manchester 2023 talk): https://amyhupe.co.uk/articles/burn-baby-burnout/ Lauren LoPrete – "Design Systems Burnout" talk at Clarity 2021: https://www.clarityconf.com/session/design-systems-burnout Robin Rendle – "Design Systems Burnout" newsletter: https://robinrendle.com/the-cascade/012-design-systems-burnout/ Brad Frost - “Master design systems governance with this one weird trick: bradfrost.com/blog/post/master-design-system-governance-with-this-one-weird-trick/

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Time to get spicy... One of the big promises of the hype of design systems was that it would reduce organizational and product complexity by providing efficient, replicable ways of doing things. Now that we've bedded in, its time to ask - how much do design systems actually reduce complexity? Do they just reorganize and make complexity more palatable? Show notes Product Deep Dive on Systematizing your Documentation Michelle’s article on structuring your design systems

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. A bit of a deep topic this week – how important is consistency as a concept to be aiming for with design systems? Obviously, it's one of our design systems' selling points, but in a world where we're moving more and more towards browserless, how important is component consistency, or can we see a place where foundational consistency is all we need? Show notes A List Apart - Design Dialects: Breaking the rules, not the system Vinted - Greenhouse