The Media Leader Podcast

Within the publishing market, one segment that has seen turbulence over the past few years has been freesheets. As the pandemic disrupted commuting, trains and tubes added Wi-Fi, and hybrid working became the norm, the number of people reading the paper on their daily commute dropped. This had downstream effects on some of the UK’s oldest papers. The Evening Standard became The Standard , moving from a daily to a weekly paper and emphasizing its website. Metro , which remains the UK’s highest-circulation paper, has seen several restructures and moved in and out of profitability as it has also worked to invest in its digital and social products. Now, facing declining clickthrough rates to websites because of Google’s changes to search, these news outlets are having to adapt again. As freesheets, they are entirely reliant on advertising as a business model, putting them at the coal face of changes in reader behaviour both offline and on. Deborah Arthurs is editor-in-chief of Metro. Jo Mazenko is commercial director of Metro . Last month, host Jack Benjamin joined them at Mail Metro Media’s offices in Kensington to discuss how the title has had to adapt to the changing publishing market. " Metro was born around the commute, but the day doesn't stop when you get off the train," said Mazenko. "It's about finding new ways to connect to people [and] keep the conversation going throughout the day." Highlights: 7:25: Metro' s up-and-down journey since the pandemic and changed distribution strategy 15:13: How editorial and commercial can work together while maintaining church and state 21:17: Managing the road to Google Zero by prioritising quality over quantity 26:10: Selling print in 2026 and moving into live events 33:49: The importance of habit formation 38:01: How commuting has changed Related articles: ‘Fresh team, fresh approach’: Mail Metro Media on becoming a ‘modern broadcast publisher’ Fewer ads drive more attention on websites, finds Lumen and Mail Metro Media ‘The first tremors in an earthquake’: Digital publisher revenues decline 4.6% amid falling referral traffic

To mark the 10th anniversary of AudioTrack, the UK's commercial audio delivery service owned and operated by Adwanted. The Media Leader Podcast joined the AudioTrack team for a deep dive into audio creative. In this bumper episode, host Charli West brings together five industry experts across three conversations. First, producer-director Pam Myers (Rojek) and radio data analyst Jason Brownley (ColorText) share their favourite audio campaigns, from Carpetways' regional cult following to the Compare the Market Meerkats, and make the case for authenticity, long-term consistency, and Byron Sharp's conception of distinctiveness. They also unpack the Ehrenberg-Bass 95% rule and what it means for how brands should think about the role of audio at every stage of the buyer journey. Next, Silke Zedcher, VP of Global Commercial Partnerships at AudioStack, traces a decade of change in how consumers experience audio, from single-platform broadcast to the always-on, personalised audio environments that smart speakers, streaming and podcast ecosystems now make possible. She argues that AI-powered dynamic creative is the technology that finally allows audio to fulfil its potential as a data-driven, omni-channel format. Finally, freelance audio producer and director Nick Angel and Matt Hopper, founder and CEO of Trisonic, offer a frank assessment of where AI genuinely helps in the creative process . And where it doesn't. From voice cloning concerns to the EU AI Act's disclosure proposals, they make the case that audio advertising remains a craft, and that no amount of automation changes the fundamental question: does it bear repetition? This episode was produced in partnership with AudioTrack.

The UK TV market is in a state of precarity and change. Sky is acquiring ITV’s Media and Entertainment business, the BBC is facing declining license fee payers, and director-general Matt Brittin has suggested reviving a Project Kangaroo-like “sovereign” streaming platform involving iPlayer and Channel 4. Meanwhile, all the broadcasters are keen to “meet audiences where they are,” which is increasingly on third-party, American-owned, walled garden tech platforms. Broadcasters are embracing social video, but concerns around the sustainability of the commercial model on platforms are persistent. Niamh Burns is the media policy lead at Enders Analysis. She recently co-authored a report on the major UK broadcasters, how they are dealing with headwinds in the TV ad market, and how they are embracing third-party platforms in search of audience growth. She recently sat down with host Jack Benjamin to discuss all things TV. When asked whether she believes the commercial opportunity on social platforms is enough to fund broadcaster's premium content production, Burns plainly stated: "At the moment, the answer is no across all the platforms." Highlights: 3:33: Will Sky's acquisition of ITV's Media & Entertainment business get the green light? 7:00: "A now or never moment" for the BBC: Charter review, license fee changes, a new "sovereign" streaming platform 17:07: Broadcaster strategies on social media platforms: From marketing to distribution via a black box 25:36: The commercial logic of embracing platform distribution 29:39: Handling different measurement standards 32:40: Government green paper and due prominence for broadcasters Related articles: Is Sky’s acquisition of ITV necessary to compete with global platforms? What the CMA should actually be asking about Sky and ITV Five items in Andy Burnham’s media in-tray How the BBC’s digital distribution strategy is evolving

Netflix is in the midst of a commercial expansion. In May, the streaming giant announced its ad tier would be coming to 15 new markets, including 9 in Europe. The streaming giant has invested in developing its own tech stack and acted aggressively to grow its programmatic business. The company is also expanding its live sport portfolio, and is dabbling in video podcasting and gaming, all leading to new potential commercial opportunities in the near future. Damien Bernet is Netflix’s EMEA ads VP. He spoke with host Jack Benjamin in his native France at the Cannes Lions Festival of Creativity last month about how Netflix is rolling out its ad tier expansion in Europe and new innovations aimed at automating programmatic buying. Since the pair's conversation, Netflix announced its Q2 2026 earnings report . Revenue grew 13% year-on-year to $12.6bn, with Netflix's ads business on track to double year-on-year to $3bn by the end of the year. Media analysis firm Madison & Wall has estimated Netflix's ad revenue now comprises 7% of its total revenue in the US, a small but "increasingly meaningful" driver of growth, and that Netflix will crack the top 30 global ad sellers this year, putting its ads business on par with the likes of RTL. Despite this, investors appear spooked by reports of declining engagement, with shares of the company down more than 20% year-to-date. A report by The Wall Street Journal this summer raised concerns of worsening viewership metrics, and Netflix has moved to reduce the cadence of its What We Watched report, reducing transparency into engagement figures. Highlights: 4:20: Netflix's ad tier expansion in Europe and its late-mover advantage 10:32: New innovations: Brand partnerships, reach and frequency, outcomes 15:53: Moving from programmatic to fully automated programmatic and scaling ad personalisation 21:25: Commercial opportunities in podcasting, live sport 29:01: Goals for H2 Related articles: ‘From arts to arts and science’: Netflix becomes ‘programmatic-native’ as it expands ad tier into 15 new territories Netflix embraces publishers in ‘fit for TV’ push Exploring the TF1 / Netflix win–win partnership Goalhanger reaches milestone as Netflix continues to test the podcast waters Amazon, Netflix and Google will control half of CTV advertising market by 2030, says Omdia

Is YouTube TV? It’s a question that pretty much everyone in this industry has an opinion on. YouTube, surely, would benefit from receiving TV budgets from advertisers. And, after all, more people are watching YouTube on TV sets. At the same time, YouTube isn’t exactly leaning into TV measurement standards. It’s been in a back-and-forth here in the UK with TV measurement company Barb, most recently sending it a cease-and-desist over Barb’s effort to measure TV set viewing of a specific subset of YouTube channels. Before the measurement initiative was shut down, it had revealed that much of YouTube viewing on TV sets was clearly being done by very small children , with viewership in the UK relatively light and limited to shows like Peppa Pig and Bluey. Of course, whether YouTube should be considered TV is just one question for YouTube, which has been wrapped up in social media bans for under-16s and has been found by a US jury to have designed its platform to be harmfully addictive. For brands, though, one of the biggest challenges they have with their YouTube strategy and managing its fragmented nature – there’s long-form, there’s TV set viewing, there’s Shorts, and there are creators working across it all, many of whom marketers may have no idea who they are, even as they’re microcelebrities within their own community. Kim Larson is the global managing director and head of YouTube creators. She sat down with host Jack Benjamin in Cannes last month to discuss the platform, how it works with creators, and how the latest news of bans and concerns around measurement might impact the business. Highlights: 3:20: Reaction to social media bans for under-16s and how it might impact young creators. 5:32: Is YouTube TV? 'Absolutely' - even if measurement standards are under question. 8:09: Why YouTube is the best for creators wanting to earn a living. 11:20: Ad disclosure standards. 12:43: How advertisers can deal with YouTube's own fragmentation of long and short form. 15:00: Professionalisation of the creator economy Related articles: Google hands cease-and-desist letter over YouTube measurement Barb’s first 7 weeks of YouTube channel data reveals over-indexing of child audiences What YouTube sees that you don’t: The future of media is a system, not a bunch of channels YouTube isn’t social media. So why is it being banned?

This episode was produced in partnership with News UK . News UK’s The Sun is one of many titles to embrace video in recent months. According to the publisher, its videos have driven 60m views and a 110% increase in returning viewers. Its movement into video has also helped secure new sponsors, including Allwyn, DAZN, Betfair, Cardfactory and 32Red. Owen Griffiths is the commercial revenue director of The Sun . At the Cannes Lions Festival of Creativity last month, The Media Leader' s content director James Longhurst sat down with him to discuss The Sun ’s video strategy, what makes the publisher’s output unique, and how the World Cup is driving growth this year. Highlights: 1:25: Takeaways for publishers from Cannes: Positioning journalists as creators 2:15: Expanding video for editorial and commercial purposes 6:00: The Sun 's first "video-first" and AI-powered World Cup 7:29: Is AI a threat to publishers, or an opportunity? 8:37: How do journalists feel about becoming creators? 9:54: H2 plans: New video experience in beta, expanding membership, growing in the US Related articles: ‘Place as many bets as possible’: Behind The Sun’s hybrid paywall strategy ‘The division between church and state isn’t sustainable’: Journalists weigh-up life as a creator Why do publishers struggle to find their social voice?

The New York Times is something of a rarity in contemporary news publishing: a legacy giant that is seeing double-digit revenue growth and consistent readership growth. It's no surprise, then, that many commercial leaders at other publishers here in the UK have pointed to the Gray Lady as having developed a model they want to emulate. So to kick off our publishing week in focus here at The Media Leader , it was a pleasure to sit down with Tom Armstrong, The New York Times ’s VP of global advertising. Host Jack Benjamin spoke with Armstrong in sunny Cannes about how NYT ’s “solar system” strategy of surrounding its reporting with verticals like cooking and games has driven commercial opportunity, the publisher’s strategy for international expansion, and how NYT is embracing multimedia journalism. Highlights: 1:19: What's driving NYT 's growth: Portfolio transformation, subscription-first strategy 4:59: Is NYT not just a news company anymore? 6:52: International growth strategy 8:23: Why it's important for publishers to be sought out by name in the new era of AI search 12:07: Pivoting to video (again) - opportunities and pitfalls Related articles: ‘We are a destination’: NYT’s global ads chief talks the Gray Lady’s international ambitions New York Times publisher warns journalism faces its ‘Napster moment’ ‘The division between church and state isn’t sustainable’: Journalists weigh-up life as a creator Publishers advised to be ‘niche at scale’ amid the winding road to Google Zero

This episode was produced in partnership with Channel 4. At Cannes this year, The Media Leader sat down with several members of Channel 4's commercial leadership team to discuss how the TV company is looking to drive new commercial growth now that Universal Ads is live in the UK and Channel 4 is integrated with a new slew of demand-side platforms. On an previous episode of the podcast, host Jack Benjamin spoke with commercial chief Rak Patel about the latest news, and in this episode, he sits down with members of his sales team to discuss their commercial strategy in greater depth. David Amodio is head of sales at Channel 4, and Jay Kassam is head of business operations and revenue innovation at Channel 4. The trio talked sales strategy, how the broadcaster is making progress with mid-market advertisers, and how they are applying learnings from their time with tech platforms to the TV market. Highlights: 2:31: Channel 4's evolved leadership team 5:24: Taking a 'platform mindset' to the TV market 9:20: What an 'advertiser-first, agency-led' strategy entails as Channel 4 embraces the mid-market 17:11: Channel 4's new CEO and hopes for H2 2026 Related articles: Universal Ads is live in the UK. Now what? With Channel 4’s Rak Patel Universal Ads goes live in UK, providing TV with ‘easy button’ Leading Questions with Rak Patel – Channel 4 Sales Meet the Media Owner: Channel 4 adopts a platform mindset --- Thanks to our production partners, Trisonic, for editing this episode. Discover how Trisonic can elevate your brand and expand your business by connecting with your ideal audience.

Meta is growing at a remarkable rate. Already one of the world’s biggest global advertising businesses, the tech giant’s revenue grew 33% year-on-year to $56.3bn in Q1 alone. But while its dominance over the ad industry has crystallised, so has scrutiny into its business practices – and advertisers’ role in funding online harms through its platforms. Separate court cases in the US this year found that Meta has designed harmfully addictive platforms , and that it has misled users about platform safety and facilitated child sexual exploitation. A report from Reuters last November found that Meta knowingly earned 10% of its global turnover in 2024 from fraud and scam ads. At the LEAD conference in London this year, a spokesperson for Meta disputed the figure, but acknowledged that revenue from fraud and scam ads “might” have accounted for 3-4% of turnover – still equivalent to between $5bn and $7bn. And now there are concerns over the privacy implications of its line of smart glasses, which the company has positioned as the future of consumer electronics. Wired reported in June that Meta had quietly added facial recognition code into the product , before removing it after the publication of the reporting. All this comes as Meta has increasingly launched tools aimed at automating creative and media decisioning for advertisers, calling into question the role of agencies in a future dominated by tech platforms, their data, and their AI tools. It’s a lot to unpack. At Cannes this year, The Media Lead er put questions on all these topics and more to Meta’s EMEA vice president, Derya Matras. In the interview, Matras notably claimed that Meta has invested $30bn into addressing issues of ad fraud, scams and "other integrity issues". She said, "it's not like we knowingly have bad ads" and that Meta is "incentivised to take action on this" because it is "not good for us." But, since recording the interview, an investigation by the BBC found that Instagram has been running paid ads in India that promote child sexual abuse material on the messaging app Telegram. When one of the ads was reported to Meta by the BBC, Meta reportedly initially responded that the ad did not violate its community guidelines. Meta later told the BBC it had disabled several of the ads and suspended the accounts posting them. A spokesperson for Meta told The Media Leader: “Meta has a zero tolerance policy for soliciting or sharing CSAM, including in ads. We use advanced AI technology to proactively detect violating content and individuals, but we are in a constant battle with criminals who hide among our 3.5bn users and try to evade our detection. That is why our expert teams are constantly working to improve our defenses, develop new technology to root out predators, block links to violating websites, and share intelligence with other companies so they can take action too." A full transcript of the conversation is available on The Media Leader , edited for length and clarity. Highlights: 3:27: Reaction to social media bans for under-16s, criticism of failure to address online harms and addictive design 11:58: Advertisers want more transparency of where their ads show up on platforms 13:29: Why is Meta knowingly earning billions from fraud and scam ads? 17:15: Meta is automating creative and media decisioning. Should agencies be concerned? 27:04: Are smart glasses still the future of commercial technology? What about privacy implications? 30:21: Meta's growth depends on providing good user experience. Is it getting worse? Related articles: Molly Russell charity CEO: Social media’s user safety efforts have been ‘performative’ ‘Right diagnosis, wrong prescription’? Adland torn as Starmer announces under-16s social media ban ‘Are we monetising addiction?’ Ad industry faces reckoning following social media addiction lawsuit verdict Snap is betting on smart glasses. Should brands?

This episode was produced in partnership with Channel 4 . For the second year in a row, the UK's commercial TV companies made a splash at the Cannes Lions Festival of Creativity. After unveiling Universal Ads — the broadcasters' marketplace for small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) — last year, Sky, ITV, Channel 4 and Comcast officially launched the product on Tuesday. And on Monday, Channel 4 announced it had partnered with 5 demand-side platforms to make advertising with Channel 4 more accessible to advertisers. During the week, in partnership with Channel 4, host Jack Benjamin sat down with Channel 4's commercial chief, Rak Patel, as well as members of its commercial leadership team, Jay Kassam and David Amodio, in separate interviews. He asked Patel, Kassam and Amodio about the latest news, the state of the UK TV industry, and how Channel 4 is balancing the need to reduce enough friction to make TV easy to buy, while retaining enough friction to make it a trustworthy medium for advertisers. The Media Leader will be releasing the episodes in two parts, the first with Patel and the second with both Kassam and Amodio. "You can be easy to buy, but retain your superpower," Patel said. "Broadcast is an oasis... The tech giants are a data warehouse, we are a dream factory." Highlights: 1:43: Changes at Channel 4 over the past year 8:46: Taking a platform mindset to future-proof Channel 4 12:38: 'Turn down the toxic' hasn't happened yet. What will move the dial? 14:12: Universal Ads is live. What it means for broadcasters, what the UK has learned from the US, and how the product will evolve 20:21: What is the go-to-market strategy for reaching SMEs? 25:30: 'The wind of change' Related articles: Universal Ads goes live in UK, providing TV with ‘easy button’ Leading Questions with Rak Patel – Channel 4 Sales Meet the Media Owner: Channel 4 adopts a platform mindset

Last week, WPP Media released its mid-year global advertising forecast report. As Kate Scott-Dawkins, WPP Media’s global president of business intelligence and author of the report said, the growth picture for advertising is "quite buoyant", even in the midst of severe geopolitical and macroeconomic uncertainty. As the global advertising community descends upon sunny Cannes this week, including us at The Media Leader , deals will be cut, rose will be drunk, parties will be had. But ahead of the pomp and circumstance, The Media Leader wanted to take a close look at where the industry stands after a deeply unstable H1. Host Jack Benjamin caught up with Scott-Dawkins last week to unpack the strong growth picture despite that instability, and look ahead to the end of the year and beyond. The duo discussed the rise of China, the decline traditional ad sellsers, and why AI is driving substantial growth in the ad industry. Highlights: 1:39: Unstable global business market, buoyant global ad market 6:01: AI's 'Manifest Destiny' and 'Gold Rush' moment 9:31: Is platform-driven media consolidation good for advertisers? How big is too big? 12:58: Impact of social media ban and potential tech regulation 16:13: What happens if the Strait of Hormuz remains closed? 19:32: How AI is impacting the labour market, and what it means for consumer spending 24:58: The rise of China and the bifurcation of marketing stacks Related articles: WPP Media upgrades growth forecast despite macro headwinds Strait of Hormuz disruption threatens $94bn of global ad investment over next 18 months

Last week on the show, The Media Leader spoke with Thinkbox’s Elliott Millard about how brands can reconsider their cultural impact, and this week, we wanted to continue that conversation with an agency that bills itself as sitting right at the centre of culture. Hamid Habib is the managing director of Arena Media within Havas Village. Habib and Arena Media pride themselves on working on inventive campaigns that embed brands within culture and communities. Habib discusses what it means to work for a “cultural media agency”, how he has moved his clients away from channel planning and toward ecosystem design, and the overarching cultural changes he thinks every brand should be aware of. He and host Jack Benjamin also talk about why brands are underinvesting in gaming, and how AI is changing the role agencies play for their clients. Highlights: 4:55: Arena Media's unique client proposition and why brands "grow when they move with culture". 11:24: Less channel planning, more ecosystem design: Why the brand and performance dichotomy is not fit-for-purpose. 18:00: Important cultural shifts this year: Bifurcation of media behaviours across generations, AI changing customer journeys 26:32: Brands need a BANG: Breadth, authenticity, newness, granularity 31:33: Zig when others zag: Why Reddit, gaming are underinvested channels 45:06: Are agencies still relevant as automated planning, buying and creative becomes common? Related articles: How marketers should reconsider culture and short-term strategies — with Thinkbox’s Elliott Millard Is there still room for human creativity in the AI era? Charlie Hugill: Why the future of media is real, human and experiential PlayNet launches to connect gaming with online behaviour

Ask marketers what they hope to accomplish and, as part of the effort to drive sales outcomes, these days, many will say they want their brand to contribute to and sit within culture But that begs the question: how do you define culture? There is a sense that culture is youth-driven and based on social currency – are you up to date on the latest trend? On what people are talking about right now? Are you speaking their language? But a new study presented at a Thinkbox event last week found that marketers might just be thinking about culture in too narrow a way, and a change in framing might cause them to rethink their media investment. Elliott Millard is the chief strategy officer at Thinkbox. He sits down with host Jack Benjamin to discuss how brands are advertising through macroeconomic adversity, and how they should reconsider how to best make a cultural impact through their advertising. Highlights: 3:36: Adversity facing advertisers: Are CMOs actually embracing brand advertising again? 10:32: Brands aren't doing short-termism the right way 15:54: The media channels that are the biggest drivers of culture 22:02: The cultural half-lives of online trends 28:14: The power of predictability and the ability to plan reactivity 38:07: Brand dynamics as a network effect Related articles: Brands could double their media investment and still generate a profitable return, claims WPP Media report The cultural moments that will matter to media in 2026 Go woke, go broke? Brands on the front line of the culture war

This week, from the 3rd to the 5th of June, the World Out of Home Organisation (WOO) is hosting its Annual Congress here in London. The event is expected to draw more than 700 attendees from over 37 countries, and The Media Leader is an official media partner of the conference, occurring during our inaugural OOH Week in Focus. Ahead of the conference, host Jack Benjamin sat down with the World Out of Home Organisation president Tom Goddard to discuss the state of the global OOH industry. The pair spoke about how OOH is working to become easier to buy, how it is improving measurement standards, and whether the media channel is telling the right story about itself to advertisers. Highlights: 4:16: The World Out of Home Organisation's recent goals and priorities 8:28: OOH's digital transformation and consolidation in ownership 12:25: Investment in data and measurement and the need for connectivity and automation 17:25: Regulatory headwinds and tailwinds 21:34: Making outdoor creative again with trust as the North Star 26:55: OOH as a sustainable medium 32:17: How to double OOH's market share: make transactions 'frictionless', collaborate more Related articles: OOH reports highest-ever annual revenue in 2025 The reinvention of OOH is accelerating Why measurable doesn’t always mean meaningful in marketing Is out-of-home under threat from global regulations? DOOH: The creative imperative

Last month, the United Nations in partnership with the Conscious Advertising Network (CAN) launched an issue brief warning the integrity of the global information ecosystem is at a "crisis point". As Charlotte Scaddan, senior advisor on information integrity at the UN, explained: "Without swift action and guardrails, AI risks accelerating the breakdown of information ecosystem integrity." But advertisers, the UN believes, are uniquely situated to demand greater transparency and guardrails from AI companies as the likes of OpenAI turn to ad-supported business models to fund their exorbitant costs. At our Future of Brands conference last month, Scaddan and CAN co-founder Harriet Kingaby joined host and senior reporter Jack Benjamin to unpack the report and make a direct appeal to advertisers to "make information integrity a condition of AI uptake." Highlights: 1:35: Toplines from the Strengthening Information Integrity: Advertising, Artificial Intelligence and the Global Information Crisis issue brief 4:41: The power of advertisers in the global information ecosystem 7:14: Why advertisers should care about media quality 9:55: Concrete steps advertisers should take when working with tech platforms Related articles: UN and CAN warn of AI-driven global information integrity crisis Social media platforms linked to human trafficking, UN report finds UK to get ChatGPT ads imminently as OpenAI expands pilot to other territories Takeaways from the Future of Brands 2026: AI, culture and measurement take centre stage ‘Are we monetising addiction?’ Ad industry faces reckoning following social media addiction lawsuit verdict Meta admits revenue from fraud and scam ads ‘might’ have accounted for 3-4% of total revenue

In a new mini-series, former Media Leader editor-in-chief Omar Oakes is joined by former Dentsu International CEO, now AI strategist Hamish Nicklin to argue over the nuances of AI development and its use in the creative industries. In the series' final episode, the duo debate for and against the prompt: "Goodbye Salesforce and Adobe because AI will end enterprise software." Taking the “for” side of the argument is Nicklin, while Oakes represents the “against” side, posing sceptical questions. Nicklin argues that the ability of people to build their own software through vibe coding will undercut SaaS business models, which are becoming too expensive to compete. Highlights: 1:05: Recent developments in AI: BuzzFeed's sale, Americans hate AI 6:26: SaaSmageddon: Why AI is disrupting software businesses, with valuations collapsing 20:17: Claude Cowork and its plug-ins 33:32: How realistic is replacing everything with vibe coding? The ease of building personal software and how IT might change 51:31: Second-order effects: What about safety and security? What about fixing bad code? 55:07: Verdicts

With the advent and adoption of AI search, consumers’ online research and discovery behaviours are shifting. How can brands win authority in this new space? Last month at our annual Future of Brands conference, industry leaders convened in London to unpack the challenges facing brand marketers in a rapidly changing media ecosystem. One such nascent problem for marketers and their agencies: how brands are showing up in large-language models (or LLMs). Laura Kell is chief data and product officer at Havas Media Network. Marcos Angelides is MD of L’Oreal Lab and head of AI operations at Publicis Media. Olya Dyachuk is global media and data director at Heineken. The trio sat down with host Jack Benjamin to discuss early efforts in generative engine optimisation, how AI search is forcing agencies to reconsider team organisation, the importance of benchmarking how your brand shows up in LLMs, and what marketers need from AI companies as the likes of OpenAI embrace advertising. Highlights: 2:05: Where brands and agencies are in their GEO journey: Benchmarking and auditing, testing and learning 11:58: Does GEO require bringing search, social and PR teams together? How agencies should reorganise 15:29: The value of LLMs for audience insights 17:17: The consumer trust issue when manipulating LLM results or placing ads in chatbots 24:17: Brands' relationships with AI companies like OpenAI vis-à-vis Google Related articles: Takeaways from the Future of Brands 2026: AI, culture and measurement take centre stage AI optimisation: The new channel brands can’t afford to overlook Havas Media Network launches ‘generative engine optimisation’ tool Agency groups’ AI platforms, explained

In a new mini-series, former Media Leader editor-in-chief Omar Oakes is joined by former Dentsu International CEO, now AI strategist Hamish Nicklin to argue over the nuances of AI development and its use in the creative industries. In episode four, the duo debate for and against the prompt: “AI sycophancy will run wild, and it will be bad for business." Taking the “for” side of the argument is Oakes, while Nicklin represents the “against” side, posing sceptical questions. While both Oakes and Nicklin agree AI sycophancy is an active problem for business leaders, Nicklin suggests that thoughtful prompting can help ameliorate concerns that chatbots are misleading you to try and keep you happy. These include giving the AI explicit permission to reject ideas and asking chatbots to give feedback as though it is for a third party as opposed to the user. As Nicklin argues, subordinates can be sycophantic, too, and "sniffing out the bullshit" is already a core skill for business leaders. But Oakes asks: what happens when you "don't know what you don't know"? Highlights: 2:12: Recent developments in AI: AI-generated music on Deezer, Los Angeles's AI art museum 6:01: What is AI sycophancy and does it mean bad ideas aren't getting killed? 16:52: Four tips for combatting AI sycophancy and making a chatbot a "critical friend" 34:44: How to "sniff out the bullshit" when you don't know what you don't know 45:38: Second-order effects: commercial damage of wrong decisions; impact on psychology, communication standards; AI education 1:00:58: Verdicts

Is there a more important relationship in our industry than that between the CMO and the CFO? Given the macroeconomic environment – war, inflation, AI threatening to upend entire industries – how are the the interests of financial leaders changing as they relate to marketing? Nimmi Shah is a consultant finance director for the media, marketing and PR industries and has worked with major agency groups. Sameer Modha is the outcome measurement innovation lead at ITV, and one of the individuals spearheading the broadcasters’ in-development outcome measurement solution, Lantern. The duo join host Jack Benjamin to discuss how financial pressures are having downstream effects on media investment, why outcomes-driven measurement has emerged as the way forward in the boardroom, and how AI is leading to new opportunities and new conundrums for marketers. Is media still being spent on eyeballs? Or is it being spent on, as Modha puts it, "a receipt that says I got something that I can take to the CFO which will continue to justify my budget". Highlights: 1:34: How CFOs are navigating volatile macro pressures, and where the CMO fits 9:24: The move to outcomes measurement as a "recepit", and how it's benefitted tech platforms 23:58: Lantern, making TV show up in the nearer term, and the power of platform models 36:37: Are platforms marking their own outcomes homework? How auctions work, and why "the machine knows better than you". 46:48: Implications of the AI cost push: Is AI generating value? Will OpenAI compete with Google? 1:05:19: What happens if finance and media decisions become automated? Related articles: How Lantern will bring outcome measurement to TV — with Sameer Modha and Matt Hill How to make marketing indispensable to the CFO? Focus on incrementality Marketers must take an ‘investor mindset’ to bridge the CEO-CMO gap, McKinsey advises Ian Whittaker: How brands can truly ensure their CEO, CFO and CMO work together

In a new mini-series, former Media Leader editor-in-chief Omar Oakes is joined by former Dentsu International CEO, now AI strategist Hamish Nicklin to argue over the nuances of AI development and its use in the creative industries. In episode four, the duo debate for and against the prompt: “AI is turning the internet into a sea of slop, and journalists are helping it happen." In a change from prior episodes, taking the “for” side of the argument is Oakes, while Nicklin represents the “against” side, posing sceptical questions. "Stories come from people," Oakes insists. But are most journalists well-funded and well-positioned to provide quality reporting today? Can AI be used to help journalists, or is it mostly just being used to produce slop? Highlights: 1:00: Recent developments in AI: Esquire Singapore 's 'interview', CTZN's AI-driven wine 6:58: Is AI useful for journalism? Oakes' experience using AI as an independent writer 26:59: 'Copy, paste, print': Have publishers devalued their own product and made it vulnerable to AI? 46:43: Second-order effects: Impacts on local news, failing business models, transparency and trust 59:56: Verdicts