Doomer Optimism

Every once in a while someone comes into the DO world and it is so clear how well they fit in it’s amazing you hadn’t found them yet! This is true of Mike, Chicagoan, Northsider (boo!), who has a vision for how to make good things in the world and is working to do so. Right now that looks like a manufacturing business he started, but Mike talks through his whole trajectory from fancy universities, working in politics, Chicago river ship boat captain, to trying to revitalize middle side American cities (with the help of Nick Offerman). You can support Mike’s work here: www.wilmot-productions.com

This episode explores how Josh and Hannah Centers built Chapter House, a publishing project designed to restore beautiful, culturally literate children’s books to homeschool families. From Homer and Shakespeare to Beowulf, Greek myth, and Our Island Story, they explain why classic literature still matters for forming attention, imagination, and virtue in a distracted age. They also share the homeschooling experiences that shaped their philosophy, including Hannah’s background as a public school teacher, their journey with a dyslexic child, and why Charlotte Mason’s ideas about habit training and whole-person education continue to guide their work. Josh makes the case that the liberal arts are even more important in the age of AI, while Hannah describes how the right book can open a reluctant reader’s world. If you care about education, great books, or raising kids with depth and resilience, this conversation offers a thoughtful and hopeful vision for what learning can be.

"But at Least They're Human: Face-to-Face Living -- With Joy and Without Illusions"From the conference: Another Life is Possible co-organized by the Woodcrest Bruderhof community, Doomer Optimism and Savage Collective, July 2026https://doomeroptimism.substack.com/p/do-308-bill-kauffman

Tom and Jason talk to Lenny Wells - pecan farmer and extension agent - about growing pecans in Georgia, the cultural and ecological factors. Along the way we also discuss: -how he got into pecans -his book on pecans -consulting with a pecan farmer in Spain -his love for Wendell Berry, and -fly-fishing in Montana Enjoy!

In this episode Ashley and Jacob discuss the concept of microcolleges, and examples of alternative educational models writ large. Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro: Exploring education, community, and sustainability 02:27 - How a class on sustainable development shifted a life trajectory 04:02 - Higher education as transformative yet bureaucratic: a nuanced view 06:20 - The role of micro-colleges as laboratories for alternative education models 08:20 - Microcollege principles: human scale, place-based focus, holistic curriculum 10:12 - Experiential learning in agriculture and sustainability in Uruguay 13:19 - Moving to Uruguay: motivation, land, community, and self-sufficiency 16:26 - The influence of environmental sociology and fieldwork on education 18:13 - Rizoma and regenerative agriculture: connecting resources across bioregions 23:21 - Adapting the Uruguay model to local high schools and legislative advocacy 26:13 - The challenges of bureaucratic hurdles in US-based experiential programs 27:27 - The origins and evolution of Thoreau College in Wisconsin 28:05 - Deep roots in the Driftless region, organic farming, and educational experimentation 29:04 - Waldorf pedagogy, family-centered schooling, and youth leadership 31:51 - Deep Springs College: history, pillars, and self-governance 34:40 - The influence of Nicola Tesla and pioneering education in remote settings 36:27 - The unique, small scale, and community-centered design of Deep Springs and inspired schools 40:34 - Gender, environment, and community: reflections on co-ed versus single-sex models 41:26 - The importance of family and nurturing environments in education communities 43:11 - The role of place-based knowledge and historical understanding in cultivating belonging 45:27 - The holistic curriculum: arts, nature, and expedition-based experiential learning 48:45 - The ethics and profundity of slaughtering animals as a ritual of reverence 50:05 - Broadening perspectives: practical engagement over superficial debates 54:35 - The significance of embodied work, such as farming and outdoor survival skills 55:55 - Building agency through collective effort and sharing tangible skills 62:45 - The impact of experiential and community-based learning on resilience 65:05 - Ideals of subsidiarity and bioregional identity as anchors for local culture 66:39 - The cultural and environmental richness of bioregions like the Driftless 70:47 - The importance of place-based storytelling, native histories, and ecological literacy 75:34 - The power of local, tangible practices versus abstract ideologies 77:26 - The role of shared projects in dissolving superficial divisions 85:12 - Cultivating inner resilience and emotional strength through holistic education 87:11 - Moving from global scale despair to local scale action and empowerment 89:04 - The importance of facing difficulties together and growing through challenge 90:46 - The value of community hubs and bioregional identity in creating hope and agency

Movetonewathens.com TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 - Introducing the idea of building a city from scratch to address societal doom 02:08 - Jackson’s background in tech and recruitment influencing city planning 03:03 - The role of ambition and ecosystem understanding in city development 06:20 - How tech industry recruitment reveals societal dysfunction and potential solutions 08:39 - The cultural decline: urban decay, regulations, and family disconnection 11:48 - The blueprint for New Athens: promises to residents and leveraging local incentives 15:07 - Examining societal doom: urban chaos, lawlessness, and cultural disintegration 18:19 - Why cities are the optimal size for revival and the role of regulations 19:16 - Ideal demographic makeup: balancing virtue, ambition, and risk-taking 21:49 - Global and regional efforts for renewal: bioregions, state lines, and culture-based organization 26:56 - Practical steps for deregulation and attracting people, businesses, and investors 33:01 - The significance of moral bounds, virtue, and community in city planning 42:50 - The importance of craft manufacturing, local food, and human-scaled urban design 46:47 - Envisioning a human-friendly, tech-lite city culture 52:28 - Population growth, family life, and the cultural mimetic effect 58:40 - The collapse of woke ideology and the rise of anti-tech, pro-human movements 65:00 - AI as a secular religion, the need to maintain human sovereignty and meaningful life 71:01 - The role of technology regulation: keeping devices off the body and emphasizing human presence 76:33 - The dynamics of institution-building, trust, and leadership challenges 83:50 - The archetype of visionary leaders and operational builders for city creation 88:17 - How to follow and support the New Athens project

Patrick Lemmon and Seth Harris In this episode, Patrick and Seth discuss the principles of traditional and orthodox building methods, the importance of local materials, and the future of sustainable construction. They explore how craftsmanship, local culture, and thoughtful design can create enduring and meaningful structures. Keywords: building, masonry, traditional construction, local materials, sustainability, architecture, craftsmanship, Vermont, masonry revival, orthodox Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Built Environment and Human Flourishing 03:00 Personal Journeys in Craftsmanship and Building Traditions 05:58 The Philosophy Behind Orthodox Masonry 08:54 The Importance of Teamwork in Craftsmanship 11:50 Learning from Nature: Building with Local Materials 15:00 Challenging Traditional Building Practices 18:02 The Historical Context of Building in Vermont 21:04 The Concept of Housewrights and Holistic Building 23:57 The Impact of Industrialization on Building Practices 27:03 The Relationship Between Building Materials and Environment 29:59 The Future of Building: Embracing Local and Sustainable Practices 40:02 The Impact of Flooding on Homes 41:56 The Evolution of Building Materials 43:50 Ventilation and Heating in Masonry Homes 50:04 Design Principles in Architecture 52:00 The State of the Building Arts Movement 01:03:04 Optimism in Building Practices Orthodox Masonry is a design/build firm specializing in structural masonry and timber frame construction. Creating buildings that are both structurally and aesthetically resilient, we offer an alternative to disposable construction. https://www.orthodoxmasonry.com/about

In this episode, Alicia Pederson, founder of Courtyard Urbanist, takes us on a fascinating journey from ancient Rome to today’s urban development roadblocks. She explains how courtyard-based architecture can address housing shortages, social isolation, and environmental concerns—all while creating vibrant, affordable neighborhoods for middle-class families. Read more about Alicia's work and vision here: https://courtyardurbanist.com/p/welcome-to-courtyard-urbanist

AI, Existential Risk, and the Future of the Human Soul

Geoffrey Long of Long Story Farms joins Jason to talk about what it actually takes to build a working farmstead part-time, the real challenges of scaling production and finding local markets, and why he thinks a permanent storefront can do what farmers' markets can't. We also get into his philosophy around local economies, community resilience, and why he believes people with skills and agency are better positioned more than most for whatever comes next.Geoffrey Long runs Long Story Farms in Newberry, South Carolina, where he raises Jersey cows, pigs, laying hens, ducks, and turkeys on 130 acres while maintaining a nine-year-old food forest and holding down a full-time corporate job. He's also spent the last three years renovating a historic building on Main Street to open Farms on Main, a local food grocery and zero-waste refillery focused on low food miles and minimal packaging.instagram.com/longstoryfarmscfacebook.com/longstoryfarmsx.com/longstoryfarms

When Your Tractor Breaks, Open Source the Whole Civilization Marcin Jakubowski, founder of Open Source Ecology, joins Ashley to talk about his 20-year project to open source the blueprints for civilization, starting with a broken tractor on a Missouri farm and expanding into a full Global Village Construction Set of 50 industrial machines. They get into the abundance vs. scarcity mindset, solar concrete, modular open source housing at $100K build cost, why proprietary design is a bad mental model, and how Marcin is now recruiting 75 people for his Future Builders Academy to finish the whole set by 2028. If you've ever been frustrated by planned obsolescence, right to repair, or the cost of building anything in America, this one's for you. https://www.opensourceecology.org/

Three hundred episodes in, and we’re still here, still questioning, still laughing, still building. In this special 300th episode, we gather voices from across DO; past guests, hosts, collaborators, and community members, to reflect on what this experiment has meant to us. What began as a space to grapple honestly with economic, ecological, and political unraveling has become something deeper: a living, breathing community grounded in realism and sustained by stubborn hope. We discuss our favorite moments and celebrate what happens when people choose to face hard truths together, and still believe in the possibility of regeneration. If you’ve listened once or a hundred times, joined us at an event, or simply wrestled with these ideas on your own, you’re part of this story. Here’s to the next chapter.

Willy Denner of Little Seed Gardens in Chatham, NY, joins Jason and returning co-host Nigel Best for a wide-ranging conversation about 32 years of small-scale organic farming, the economics of direct market production, and the political philosophy of Henry George. Willy shares how he and his wife, Claudia, built their 100-acre vegetable and grass-fed beef operation from scratch — no farming background, just conviction, soil maps, and thousands of miles of driving back roads in search of land. He talks about the decision to scale back production by 75% this year, the grind of farmers' markets, and what it means to farm as a strategy toward a life rather than as an end in itself. They go into a deep, practical discussion of Georgism and the Land Value Tax. Willy, Nigel, and Jason explore why Henry George’s Progress and Poverty — once the best-selling book in English after the Bible — argued that taxing land value (not labor, not production, not transactions) is the only morally coherent and economically efficient basis for taxation. They dig into the difference between land and capital, the concept of economic rent, and why current property and income taxes penalize production while rewarding speculation, and whether any path to a single tax exists short of civilizational crisis. Also covered: no-till vegetable growing, solarization techniques, homemade farm equipment, holistic management as a decision-making framework, and advice for young people trying to find their footing. www.littleseedgardens.com

Jason is joined by Greg Cello to discuss his plan to build a regional wool industry in New England, starting with sheep on his Rhode Island homestead. This isn't just about producing sweaters; Greg sees sheep farming as a way to revive the cooperative spirit that once defined rural communities, where families worked together and traded their goods through local granges. The conversation touches on how Greg went from military officer to homesteader, why he pulled his kids out of school and daycare to raise them at home, and how his Catholic faith became central to everything he does. He talks about the difference between environmentalism and true conservationism, his daily podcast where he works through ideas in real time, and the Globalism Slayer account he created to highlight small American family businesses as a counterweight to globalism. Greg is candid about the challenges of building roots in an expensive real estate market, the tension between using modern platforms like X and Substack to promote a vision of local self-sufficiency, and what it would actually look like to create generational stability for his family and community. The episode explores subsidiarity, discipline, dissidence, and what moves people to reject the default modern life and try something harder but more meaningful. You can find Greg at Kinward on Substack and @dissidntdad on X

How patient design and ideological diversity are reshaping food production Ashley sits down with Ryan Blosser and Trevor Piersol, co-founders of Shenandoah Permaculture Institute and authors of Mulberries in the Rain, to explore permaculture beyond the stereotype of backyard herb spirals. We discuss what sets permaculture apart from regenerative agriculture, the evolving demographics of people drawn to food production, and how ideological diversity from left-wing environmentalists to conservative land stewards strengthens the movement. We dive into the practicalities of perennial systems, why comfrey matters more than you might think, and the often-overlooked messiness of annual vegetable farming. Ryan and Trevor challenge permaculture dogma around native plants and invasive species, sharing our own experiences with bamboo and autumn olive. We also discuss Ryan's innovative farm-based education program that integrates Virginia's K-12 curriculum standards with food production and how it's showing promising results for student achievement while producing thousands of pounds of organic food for the community. As the discussion turns philosophical, we explore what "doomer optimism" really means: preparing for an uncertain future not out of fear, but because building local food systems, land relationships, and community resilience are inherently fulfilling. We examine land access challenges, the psychology of sustainable living, and why relationships, especially those forged across ideological lines, may be our most valuable resource as we face systemic change. Perfect for anyone interested in permaculture, regenerative agriculture, education, and building meaningful alternatives to industrial food systems. The Shenandoah Permaculture Institute teaches practical, hands-on permaculture with a focus on building healthy, resilient communities. Co-founded by Ryan Blosser and Trevor Piersol, along with Dr. Ted Butchart and Emilie Gooch Tweardy, SPI offers Permaculture Design Courses and workshops that blend ecological knowledge with human-centered design. Their mission is to equip communities with the tools and strategies for health and resilience, from soil to self. @shenandoahpermaculture https://www.shenandoahpermaculture.com/

Ashley Fitzgerald sits down with Elizabeth Oldfield to explore how we can foster genuine connection across ideological and cultural divides and why it matters more than ever. Drawing on Elizabeth’s experience leading the Theos think tank, hosting the acclaimed podcast The Sacred, and living in an intentional community, they discuss the power of combining rigorous research with compelling storytelling to actually shift culture and change minds. They dig into why demanding ideological purity fractures movements and how to build real coalitions across genuine disagreement instead. Elizabeth shares her hard-won insights into the neurobiology of listening, understanding our fight-or-flight responses and the human tendency toward homophily, and how this knowledge can help us create spaces where people can actually hear each other. The conversation takes a deeper turn as they wrestle with the surprising case for institutions. Even imperfect ones like churches, schools, and intentional communities are essential scaffolding for human flourishing. Elizabeth shares her own journey from childhood cultural Christianity through atheism and back to a grounded, mysterious faith, and reflects on the spiritual hunger she’s been witnessing emerge over the past several years, even among those who thought they’d moved beyond religion. Throughout, they keep returning to the unglamorous, essential work of showing up locally: sitting on school boards, knowing your neighbors, breaking bread together. In a time of fragmentation and uncertainty, they suggest this might be the most radical and necessary act of all.

Surviving Consolidation, One Pig at a Time Greg Gunthorp, a fourth-generation Indiana hog farmer, joins Nate for a wide-ranging conversation about survival, stubbornness, and adaptation in the American meat industry. Greg grew up raising pigs on pasture as part of a diversified family farm, using livestock as a tool to care for the land and keep the operation afloat. But by the early 1990s, the writing was on the wall. In 1994, Greg’s father, Theodore, told him that the era of the independent hog farmer was over. Greg didn’t accept it. Determined not to be the last Gunthorp to raise pigs, he bought the sow herd from his father and struck out on his own on 65 acres just down the road. Then the market collapsed. By 1998, Greg was selling pigs for less than what his great-grandfather had earned during the Great Depression. Walking away would have made sense, but instead, a chance conversation after a conference changed everything. Someone suggested he call a Chicago restaurant that was buying whole hogs. Greg picked up the phone, not knowing who Charlie Trotter was. “Bring me a pig,” the chef said. That delivery, into one of the most celebrated restaurants in the world, marked Greg’s entry into foodservice and a niche that would keep the farm alive. As farm-to-table gained momentum in the late ’90s and early 2000s, Gunthorp Farm grew rapidly, at times doubling year over year. Greg talks about what that growth felt like, and why it eventually slowed as larger brands entered the space and redefined what “farm-to-table” meant. “The big guys woke up,” he says. “Most of it comes from them now.” The pandemic brought another shock, especially as downtown Chicago restaurants shut down and office workers disappeared. Greg speaks candidly about the fragility of restaurant-driven farm businesses, thin margins, and how quickly demand can vanish. Throughout the conversation, adaptation is the throughline. From expanding into poultry, sheep, and on-farm processing, to developing fully cooked products and partnering with other farmers, Greg shares how flexibility, and a refusal to quit, has sustained the operation. Today, Greg, his wife Lei, and son Evan farm 240 acres with a growing team, raising and processing pigs, poultry, and sheep using practices rooted in past generations and refined with modern tools. This episode is an unvarnished look at modern meat production, the limits of food trends, and what it really takes to keep farming on your own terms when the odds aren’t in your favor. You can find Greg at Gunthorp Farms, a family-run pasture-based livestock and USDA-inspected meat processing farm in LaGrange County, Indiana. https://gunthorpfarms.com/

Nate sits down with Jason Mauck to discuss his hard-won experience running Munsee Meats, a small-scale meat processing operation in Indiana. What started as an opportunistic response to empty shelves during COVID became a two-and-a-half-year battle with regulatory bureaucracy that ultimately revealed the deep structural problems plaguing America’s food system. Jason estimates the regulatory burden cost him over a million dollars in inefficiencies, despite buying the facility for just $200,000. Meanwhile, imported beef faces far less scrutiny than his local operation ever did. Jason and Nate explore what a revitalized rural food system could actually look like—one built on diversified farms with animals integrated back onto the landscape. They discuss Jason’s innovative relay cropping systems that capture 80% of corn yields with 40% of the seed, while simultaneously raising chickens, pigs, goats, and sheep in the same fields. They examine the creative marketing strategies that worked, like automated fundraisers that gave 25% back to schools and churches while capturing retail margins, and freezer kiosks that allowed convenient pickup. Rural America has been systematically hollowed out over decades of consolidation, with farmers forced to compete against one another rather than collaborate. Jason argues that the same regulatory frameworks supposedly designed for food safety have become firewalls that protect corporate interests while making it nearly impossible for small operators to succeed. Bringing animals back to the land could restore soil health, replenish aquifers, revitalize rural economies, create meaningful employment opportunities, enhance human health through improved nutrition, and break the corporate stranglehold on our food supply. The technology and knowledge exist; what’s missing is the regulatory reform and political will to let it happen.

Antitrust attorney Basel Musharbash discusses recent political whiplash in beef markets and the broader question of how actually to enforce anti-monopoly law. The conversation covers why ranchers erupted over being blamed for high beef prices, the history of promises versus lackluster execution going back to early 1900s meatpacking cases, and how the Packers and Stockyards Act was supposed to regulate these companies but never really worked except briefly in the 1940s, Reagan's 1982 announcement ending merger enforcement and the five year transformation that followed, the difference between free markets and accessible competitive markets, why monopolies arise even without government help through predatory pricing and exclusive contracts, the paradox of needing to use power to break up concentrated power, Robert Jackson's 1937 speech on economic democracy without bureaucracy or regimentation, concrete immediate actions like debarment from government contracts versus multi-year DOJ investigations, why Congress could pass a breakup bill instead of waiting on agencies, the political opportunity for either party to outflank the other on this issue, Dan Osborne's economic dictatorship framing, and why economists should maybe just be ignored entirely when they dismiss rancher testimony with modeling exercises. Basel is Managing Attorney at the Antimonopoly Counsel, specializing in antitrust and trade regulation with a focus on agriculture, rural economies, and consumer protection. He has represented farmers against meat processors, defended workers from illegal noncompete agreements, and advocated before the FTC, DOJ, and USDA. Basel authored the landmark 2024 report “Kings Over the Necessaries of Life” on monopolization in American agriculture. His work has been featured in Reuters, AP, Time Magazine, CNBC, and other major outlets.

Welcome to Beef Week! 🐄 Nate sits down with rancher, entrepreneur, and farm advocate Mike Callicrate for a deep dive into the crisis facing America's cattle industry—and the path forward.Mike traces the devastating consolidation of the beef industry from the 1980s to today, explaining how we went from 20 competitive cattle buyers to just four dominant packers controlling 85% of the market. He shares his firsthand experience of being blackballed by the industry after speaking out, forced to watch his 12,000-head feedlot sit empty despite having 14,000 cattle ready to sell.But this isn't just a story of corporate capture—it's a blueprint for resistance. Mike details how he built Ranch Foods Direct, creating a model that bypasses the exploitative middlemen by connecting producers directly to consumers. He reveals the shocking inefficiencies of industrial meat processing (700 gallons of water per animal vs. 30-50 gallons in small plants) and explains why the "efficiency" narrative is a myth designed to justify consolidation.The conversation covers critical topics, including:How boxed beef became a weapon to eliminate small regional packersWhy USDA inspection protects big players while crushing small operationsThe real reason beef is safer when carcasses hang for 6-7 days (and why big packers won't do it)Mike's vision for "maker-owned markets"—community food hubs where producers own the real estate and control their destinyWhy breaking up retail giants like Walmart is as important as addressing packer monopoliesMike offers a third way between predatory capitalism and socialism: distributed ownership. His maker-owned market concept shows how communities can rebuild local food systems that create wealth, foster connection, and produce genuinely better food.Whether you're a producer fighting for survival, a consumer wanting better food, or someone concerned about rural America's collapse, this conversation provides both the context to understand how we got here and the vision to imagine something better.