Behind the Balance Sheet

Alex Roepers is a concentrated deep value investor who takes a behind the scenes activist approach. Here he explains the strategy which he has exploited over the past near-35 years to outperform the S&P by delivering a 12.3% pa or a 48x return net of fees. We discuss his journey from the corporate to the investing world and his playbook for constructive activism, including how he interacts with management teams. Alex explains how he evaluates management quality, capital allocation and operational improvement opportunities. This is a masterclass in improving returns by persuading management to do the right thing for shareholders.

Rich Pzena, founder of $80bn AUM Pzena Investment Management, explains his value investing philosophy and how he built a deep value franchise by buying good businesses when they are deeply out of favour. He talks through recreating Benjamin Graham’s net net research at Wharton, leaving a secure role at Bernstein to start his own firm, surviving ten quarters of brutal underperformance in the dot com bubble and how he nearly sold out but was persuaded to continue by Joel Greenblatt. Rich explains his clear framework for what makes a good business, how to judge if problems are temporary, and why most investors systematically misprice uncertainty and cyclicality. He thinks deep value investing is just commonsense.

James Aitken, macro strategist to the world’s largest and most successful investors, takes Steve on a tour of the keythemes in global finance today. You will learn why James is interested in Japan, his views on the new Fed Chair and why inflationary pressures are here to stay as post Covid, we focus on resilience rather than efficiency. James also shares his thoughts on gold, on AI, and importantly on a changing supply-demand balance in US equities. Finally he shares his perspective on what differentiates his clients who include some of the largest and some of the best performing investors in the world, so listen carefully to that and what he predicts we will be talking about in 3 years’ time.

Jeremy Grantham is known as a permabear and an expert on bubbles so you should not be surprised that he sees an AI-induced bubble today and thinks the market will fall by 50%. He points out that at peaks you always have high multiples applied to abnormally high profit margins and today is no different. We discuss his experiences at GMO, where they didn’t have a sales person for their first 22 years, how his refusal to participate in the dot.com bubble cost him half his clients and none of them came back when he was proved right, how he recruited some of the best minds in finance, and why timing the market can deliver outsize returns. Grantham is no longer managing portfolios, instead devoting his considerable energies to philanthropy. We discuss his foundation’s efforts to combat climate change, to resource depletion, and to toxicity which is affecting fertility – he highlights how population will be in decline unless this is addressed. https://behindthebalancesheet.com/podcast Jeremy Grantham is known as a permabear and an expert on bubbles so you should not be surprised that he sees an AI-induced bubble today and thinks the market will fall by 50%. He points out that at peaks you always have high multiples applied to abnormally high profit margins and today is no different. We discuss his experiences at GMO, where they didn’t have a sales person for their first 22 years, how his refusal to participate in the dot.com bubble cost him half his clients and none of them came back when he was proved right, how he recruited some of the best minds in finance, and why timing the market can deliver outsize returns. Grantham is no longer managing portfolios, instead devoting his considerable energies to philanthropy. We discuss his foundation’s efforts to combat climate change, to resource depletion, and to toxicity which is affecting fertility – he highlights how population will be in decline unless this is addressed. https://behindthebalancesheet.com/podcast

Michael Cembalest chairs the Market and Investment Strategy group at JP Morgan Asset and Wealth Management and effectively oversees $4tn AUM. He is responsible for market and investment insights across the asset management business and has produced the famous Eye on the Market publication for over 20 years now. We discuss AI, which formed the bulk of his most recent annual edition, why he believes Open AI is a weak link and why he thinks the Treasury market will have a crash, but not yet. Cembalest is known for his charts and he picks both his favourite and his least favourite charts. Michael is one of the most in-depth macro analysts I have met and it’s his depth as well as his breadth of knowledge which is truly impressive. We recorded in JP Morgan’s amazing new office in New York, check out the photos in the show notes . Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips. For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠⁠⁠website⁠⁠⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

Rory Sutherland is the Vice Chairman of advertising giant Ogilvy UK, a behavioural scientist, TED speaker, organiser of the Nudgestock conference and so much more. Most important, he is one of the most original thinkers around. In this wide ranging conversation, he explains what accountants and analysts miss, why he believes family-owned businesses are long term winners, two reasons to own Costco, his views on luxury brands, why he thinks electric cars could reshgpae industries, what short selling has in common with behavioural science and much, much more. Rory is not an investor but there are some tremendous insights here for investors to take away. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips. For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠⁠website⁠⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

The title “The Sculptor” is a play on a quote “every man can be the sculptor of his own mind”, as Jonathan Tepper is uniquely self-educated. Brought up in the slums of San Blas in Madrid, partly home-schooled, he made it to Oxford as a Rhodes scholar. Tepper is a relentless learner, endlessly curious and in love with investing – as he sees it, you never stop learning and every day is an opportunity to learn. In this episode we discuss his childhood, as recounted in his new book Shooting Up; how curiosity and a desire to learn can transform your opportunity set; and we trace his investment journey, from a start as a junior analyst at Steve Cohen’s firm, through building a highly successful sellside research company to setting up his investment firm Prevatt Capital. He explains why he holds just 16 idiosyncratic stocks and what he looks for in a successful investment. Tepper has had a fascinating journey and has achieved more in just over 40 years than many do in a life of investing – his is a wonderful story. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

Terry Smith is the fund manager the professionals love tohate. A billionaire, he is in the third and most successful phase of a varied career. He trounced the index for years with a simple mantra of buy good companies, don’t overpay, do nothing. He thus built one of the largest funds inthe UK, made himself a fortune and moved to Mauritius. None of this made him popular with his peers and after 5 years of underperforming the S&P500 (his global fund has been mainly invested in the US) and underperforming the world index in 2025, there is quite a bit of schadenfreude around. Smith used to box for fun and you wouldn’t want to be on thewrong side of him, but in this interview, he reveals a side less often seen. He confesses to being unable to sleep at night, worrying about stocks and expresses an extreme desire to do the best for his clients. Smith has been incredibly successful as an analyst, as a public company CEO and now as a fundmanager. He attributes it to hard work and a strong desire to succeed, driven by his background – Smith comes from a poor family and grew up in a house with an outside toilet. He is frustrated with his recent performance but is resolutethat he has the right approach and will prevail eventually. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

James Anderson, former Senior Partner of Baillie Gifford and early backer of Elon Musk, now runs the Lingotto Innovation Strategy with Morgan Samet. I interviewed them in front of a live audience at Italian Tech Week, hence this shorter than usual episode. We discussed AI of course, China’s role in a portfolio as a leader in many areas of tech but with associated geopolitical risk, the future of autonomous driving, what it means to be a long term investor in innovation, investing in everything from start-ups to Nvidia and in between including Space X, flying cars and much more. I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope you will too – let us know if the shorter format is a better option for busy commuters. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

Tom Gayner is the CEO of Markel Group and has run its investment portfolio for 35 years, beating the index by an astonishing 1.5% pa. This makes him one of the most successful capital allocators in the US stockmarket, yet he is under the radar. He explains why he holds 140 stocks, although the top 40 represent 80% of the value; why there are so few imitators of the insurance/equity and business investment strategy so successfully deployed by Berkshire and Markel; the simple way to analyse an insurance business; what he has learned from being on the boards of Graham Holdings with Warren Buffett and on the Coca Cola Company; and one secret of Warren Buffett’s success which you likely will not have heard before. Tom Gayner is anything but a plodder, but his thoughtful, modest and cautious approach to investing and life makes him a fantastic role model. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

Tim Guinness is the founder and Chairman of Guinness Global Investors. He has been in business 5 decades and has been managing money for 44 years. He has built up two firms, the first he sold and the second now runs $11bn. Age 77, he is still thinking about how to grow the business and secure its future. Perhaps controversially, Tim thinks it’s not difficult for activemanagers to beat the index, even today. This was a fascinating discussion with an incredibly experienced and normally under the radar fund manager who is unafraid to challenge consensus thinking. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

Nick Train is a seriously thoughtful growth investor with a highly impressive 40 year track record. He invests in eternal franchises and takes a 20 year view. He says his ideal holding period is forever. He was early to recognise that high quality consumer brands were great investments and accordingly his funds significantly outperformed their benchmarks. More recently, the last five years have been less kind and performance has lagged somewhat with weak performance from some of his biggest holdings, notably Diageo, which is down almost 50% from its peak, in a market which has gone up. Nick has taken this performance to heart and he explains why he has stuck with Diageo and continues to believe it’s as “forever” stock. He also explains his change in strategy to favouring 21st century asset light digital data plays which he sees as even more valuable than his old favourite consumer brands. He is particularly impressed with Rightmove, which I have described in the past as akin to a UK Zillow, and explains his rationale, as well as his enthusiasm for LSEG, RELX and Unilever. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

Christopher Tsai is a deeply thoughtful growth investor. He became one of the foremost collectors of the works of Ai Weiwei, recognising their implicit value and deeply studying the artist. His concentrated portfolio reflects his attraction to growth stocks with Tesla his largest position. In our conversation, he explains why he believes Tesla has deep moats across multiple verticals; why he thinks many of the growth stocks in his portfolio have optically inflated valuations as they invest now to create future value; why the second largest position in his portfolio is QXO, with his father, also a famous investor, being one of Brad Jacobs’ original backers; and what he looks for in managers. I am trying to meet more growth investors to understand their strategy better. Christopher’s portfolio is too racy for me, at over a 60x P/E multiple on my estimates when we recorded and probably higher today, but he makes an interesting case for holding long-term compounders. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

David Samra has been in the investment business for over 30years. He specialises in international value and has beaten his index by over 4% pa for over 20 years, in a period when traditional value has been doing poorly. That may be why his fund, which has been closed to new investors for most of the last 14 years, has reached $50bn. In this conversation, David explains his focus on four factors: owning good companies, buying them at a discount of at least 30% to intrinsic value, and ensuring they have excellent management and a strong balance sheet. And he discusses several of his stocks, sharing some impressively detailed knowledge. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

Dave Iben is the founder and CIO of Kopernik GlobalInvestors, a $6bn global value investment shop which prides itself on independent thought and is comfortable with contrarian positions. Steve invited Dave on the podcast because at a recent NewYork conference, Dave was cheerleading that value was back, and Steve wanted to discuss the rationale for his enthusiasm, given value’s massive underperformance in the last 15 years. Luckily Dave was spending the summer in London looking for cheap UK stocks, and they could record in person. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

Gary Channon is one of the UK’s better known valueinvestors. He runs a value fund, a closed-end fund and a private equity vehicle. He runs a highly concentrated portfolio. The top 5 positions are over 50%, and he holds no more than 15 stocks. I asked him on the podcast because he is really thoughtful about his process – he only buys stocks selling for <50% of intrinsic value, and if he can monitor the business performance independently of the company's communications. He is then prepared to hold them for extended periods, as long as they remain cheap. His framework for evaluating a stock includes parameterslike the depth of work completed and confidence levels, he has instructed his entire research team to become AI experts and he has already seen significant benefits; he thinks AI means sellside analysts will be more or less gone in twoyears; and we talked about his techniques for interviewing management which include spending 4-6 hours preparing for a 1 hour meeting. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

Jennifer Wallace is a value investor. She learned her tradefrom a series of luminaries, studying under Bruce Greenwald at Columbia, before going to work for famed value investor Bob Bruce (who used to hang out with Warren Buffett). Today she is the CIO of Summit Street Capital Management, and only invests in high quality companies with modest leverage when they are super cheap. This means she will often find stocks with issues that are hopefully temporary. But she has found a winning formula, having delivered a 7.8x return to investors since 2009. Around a quarter of her investee companies have been acquired. She explains why, her rationale for having a 25-30 stock equally-weighted portfolio and why you should not befriend CEOs - "if you want a friend, get a dog”. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

In his youth, George Michelakis, was a top 3 global under-20chess player. No surprise he is pretty good at investing too and runs a $2bn long short equity hedge fund out of London. Since 2006, he has compounded capital at a rate of 5.35x vs 3.43k for the MSCI world, on net exposure of 30-45%. That’s an impressive record but astonishingly, he entered his longest-running short position 10 years ago. We talked about his investing philosophy, his theory about alifestyle recession, why shorting is critical to performance, how he manages the fund and the team, why he focuses on management and why, as in chess, man plus machine or analyst plus AI will beat the lone human, which has profoundimplications for investors. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

Dan Rasmussen is the founder and CIO of Verdad Advisers, an unconventional quantitative investment boutique. In this conversation, Steve and Dan agree that private equity and credit look highly risky for the next decade. They debate the value of forecasting, where they have very different views. They similarly disagree on forecast horizons, with Dan favouring near term accuracy and Steve thinking longer term forecasts are more likely to be accurate. They also debate the persistence of growth and discuss Dan’s favourite financial metric. Steve and Dan have different perspectives on many issueswhich leads to apparently contradictory conclusions but in reality, they don’t disagree – the issue is base rates versus marginal opportunities. Steve and Dan view markets through different lenses, which makes for an interesting discussion. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

In this episode with Tom Slater of Baillie Gifford, managerof the £10bn Scottish Mortgage investment trust, we cover a lot of ground. Of course, we discuss his current thoughts on China and the Mag 7, including why he has trimmed Nvidia but still likes Meta and his thoughts on Elon Musk. Tom explainshis investing philosophy, what growth managers do differently from traditional value managers and how the firm’s culture has made Baillie Gifford such a successful manager. Tom explains how he remains calm in the roller coaster rides of many of his stocks, with drawdowns of 60-70% common, notably Nvidia in 2022 on its way to that $3tn capitalisation; why he favours technical founders who can advantage their companies in the AI age; what Elon Musk said to him in 2013 and why that has stayed with him; the difference betweeninvesting in quoted companies and those in private markets; and why he and colleagues don’t pitch stocks to the team, which he believes gives them an important behavioural advantage. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠ . If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.