Lessons I Learned in Law

Christie McCluskey is Chief Legal and People Officer at Ooni, the pizza oven and cooking products company, having joined in 2022 as its first in-house lawyer. Before Ooni, she spent almost six years at William Grant & Sons, home to brands including Glenfiddich and Balvenie whisky and Hendrick's Gin, after training and qualifying in Scotland. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law , Christie talks through building a legal function from scratch at a fast-growing, founder-led business, and the shift in mindset that came with moving from a 130-year-old institution to a younger, more agile one. Her three lessons: first, that legal is only one lens — good in-house lawyers give firm advice while recognising there are other legitimate factors at play, and that the job is to navigate risk rather than eliminate it entirely. Second, that it's okay to say "I don't know yet" — slowing a decision down to get it right is different from blocking it, and confidence and self-doubt can coexist productively. Third, to find your passion within the role — for Christie, that's the relationship-building that comes from sitting across every part of the business — because a sustainable legal career needs more than just the technical work. She also reflects on Ooni's growth from Scotland to Austin, Texas, and the value of building a strong network within Scotland's legal community. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Wordsmith AI — the legal AI platform built specifically for in-house teams. Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Register your interest in joining The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB Heriot Brown: https://heriotbrown.com/ Wordsmith AI: https://www.wordsmith.ai/ Legal Engineering Project Application form: https://wordsmith.fillout.com/legalengproject Listen to the Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4H4tBzknDSCejrvIqKxKyi Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lessons-i-learned-in-law/id1563397804 YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/@HeriotBrownInHouseRecruitment Connect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/

Umar Aziz, Partner, Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel at DG Partners, joins Scott Brown to share lessons from a career that nearly took him into shipping brokerage before a major life event brought him back to law. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law , Umar reflects on how personal circumstances shaped the start of his legal career, including his decision to return to Clifford Chance after initially turning down his training contract. His first lesson is that there is more to life than work . Drawing on his own experiences of loss, family responsibility and high-pressure legal environments, he discusses the importance of building a full life outside the job — and why excellence matters across work, family, friendships and personal pursuits. His second lesson comes from advice he received early in his career: learn from the best bits of the lawyers around you . Umar explains why every lawyer you work with has something worth copying — and something worth leaving behind. His final lesson challenges the idea that lawyers should always try to “win” every point. Whether negotiating with clients, managing internal teams or building long-term business relationships, Umar argues that sustainable success comes from fairness, trust and mutual respect — not squeezing every last drop out of the other side. Along the way, Umar discusses moving from litigation into funds, the transition from private practice into DG Partners, his COO and GC role, and why full-contact karate helps him stay disciplined, present and switched off from work. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Wordsmith AI — the legal AI platform built specifically for in-house teams. Guest Recommendations Sport: Full-contact karate Sauce of choice: Buffalo or curry sauce Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Register your interest in joining The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB Heriot Brown: https://heriotbrown.com/ Wordsmith AI: https://www.wordsmith.ai/ Legal Engineering Project Application form: https://wordsmith.fillout.com/legalengproject Listen to the Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/4 YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/ Connect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/ About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave a review, and share it with someone building their career in legal leadership. Chapters: 00:00 Intro – Umar Aziz & DG Partners 03:40 Turning down Clifford Chance twice 09:28 From private practice to GC & COO 16:12 Lesson 1 – There’s more to life than work 24:03 Karate, resilience & switching off 30:08 Lesson 2 – Learn from great lawyers 34:22 Lesson 3 – Winning isn’t everything 39:55 Building long-term relationships 44:31 GC, COO & wearing multiple hats 56:42 Hot or Not, AI & closing thoughts

Selene Brett, Chief Legal, Risk and Compliance Officer at PPRO, joins Scott Brown to share thoughtful lessons on legal leadership, humility, and how lawyers can add real value without hiding behind the mystique of the profession. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law , Selene reflects on her role at PPRO, a payments platform helping merchants and payment service providers connect to local payment methods around the world. With a broad remit spanning legal, risk, compliance, outsourcing and internal audit, she discusses what drew her to a business where those functions are seen as strategic enablers rather than the “business prevention unit”. Her first lesson is that lawyers are special, but not that special . Selene challenges the idea that legal teams should sit above the business as guardians of all good judgement. Instead, she argues lawyers earn their seat at the table by being approachable, constructive and genuinely useful. Her second lesson is to make it count . Senior legal roles come with influence, access and privilege — and Selene believes that creates a responsibility to use that position well, whether through difficult conversations, mentoring, or helping others find routes into the profession. Finally, she talks about gathering the nuggets : taking something meaningful from every role, every relationship and every experience, even the difficult ones. From rural Norfolk to Harvard, New York and senior in-house leadership, Selene’s story is a reminder that careers rarely move in straight lines — and that empathy, trust and agency matter just as much as technical skill. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Wordsmith AI — the legal AI platform built specifically for in-house teams. Guest Recommendations Sauce of choice for chicken nuggets: Blue cheese Event recommendation: Heriot Brown’s Charity Burns Night Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Register your interest in joining The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB Heriot Brown: https://heriotbrown.com/ Wordsmith AI: https://www.wordsmith.ai/ Legal Engineering Project Application form: https://wordsmith.fillout.com/legalengproject Listen to the Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/4 YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/ Connect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/ About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave a review, and share it with someone building their career in legal leadership.

Jim Shaughnessy, Chief Legal Officer at DocuSign, joins Scott Brown to share lessons from more than 20 years operating at the top of global legal teams. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law , Jim reflects on his role leading legal at DocuSign, a business best known for e-signature and now expanding into intelligent agreement management. He explains how DocuSign is helping businesses move beyond signing documents into managing agreements more intelligently, using AI, automation and better contract visibility. Jim’s first lesson is that an in-house legal career is not always about the law . For senior lawyers, influence is everything: being in the room when important decisions are made, being sought out when the issue is broader than pure legal advice, and helping the business get important things done. His second lesson is a reminder that influence only works if it is underpinned by technical excellence . Lawyers may contribute to strategy, policy and commercial decision-making, but when the issue is legal, they need to be precise, trusted and properly prepared. Finally, Jim discusses the importance of professional identity . At every stage of a legal career, lawyers need to understand what success looks like in their role, which relationships matter most, and how to build credibility for the next step. He also shares his perspective on AI, why legal teams should embrace change, and how junior lawyers can create real impact by experimenting with new tools. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Wordsmith AI — the legal AI platform built specifically for in-house teams. Guest Recommendations Song: Talk of the Town – The Pretenders Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Register your interest in joining The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB Heriot Brown: https://heriotbrown.com/ Wordsmith AI: https://www.wordsmith.ai/ Legal Engineering Project Application form: https://wordsmith.fillout.com/legalengproject Listen to the Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/4 YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/ Connect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/ About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave a review, and share it with someone building their career in legal leadership. Chapters: 00:00 Intro – Jim Shaughnessy & DocuSign 03:12 Beyond e-signature – DocuSign IAM 10:52 Lesson 1 – Influence matters most 18:06 Building influence as a junior lawyer 24:38 AI leadership & visibility in legal teams 29:28 Using influence at the right time 36:58 Lesson 2 – Be an excellent lawyer first 44:54 One-way vs two-way door decisions 48:43 Lesson 3 – Professional identity matters 01:01:44 Hot or Not, AI & closing thoughts

James Ryan, Chief Legal Officer and Chief Business Officer at BioNTech, joins Scott Brown to discuss the lessons he’s learned leading through one of the most transformative periods in the biotech industry. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law , James reflects on his journey from scientist to lawyer, before eventually stepping into one of the most influential legal leadership roles in biotech. Joining BioNTech before it became globally recognised, he shares what it was like helping scale a fast-growing research-focused company into a world-leading biotechnology business, while navigating the intensity and pressure that came with rapid global growth and strategic partnerships, including BioNTech’s landmark collaboration with Pfizer. James’ first lesson focuses on the importance of curiosity. From scientific research to complex legal negotiations, he explains why asking better questions, understanding the client’s objectives, and genuinely engaging with the business leads to stronger advice and deeper trust. His second lesson is about objectivity. James discusses the challenge lawyers face when businesses want a particular answer — and why legal leaders must remain calm, analytical, and willing to give the advice that needs to be heard, not simply the advice others want. Finally, he talks about remembering that everyone is human. Reflecting on periods of extreme pressure and workload, James explains why approachable legal teams build stronger businesses, why mistakes need to be surfaced early rather than hidden, and why lawyers need downtime and perspective to perform at their best. Along the way, James also shares insights into: Transitioning from Chief Legal Officer into a broader Chief Business Officer role How legal teams earn influence inside high-growth businesses Why biotech companies think differently about risk The importance of relationships, curiosity, and trust in leadership How climbing helps him switch off and solve problems more effectively This episode is brought to you in partnership with Wordsmith AI — the legal AI platform built specifically for in-house teams. Guest Recommendations Film: Free Solo Hobby: Climbing Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Register your interest in joining The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB ECA: https://www.cpduk.co.uk/courses/heriot-brown-executive-counsel-accelerator-eca-course Wordsmith AI: https://www.wordsmith.ai/ Listen to the Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/4 YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/ Connect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/ About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave a review, and share it with someone building their career in legal leadership. Chapters: 00:00 Intro – James Ryan & BioNTech 03:22 CLO to Chief Business Officer 05:42 BioNTech before COVID 07:21 From s

Lucy Tyrrell, General Counsel at Wordsmith AI, joins Scott Brown to explore how in-house lawyers can evolve by combining legal expertise with technology, process design, and commercial thinking. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law , Lucy shares her journey from private practice into high-growth tech environments, culminating in her role at a fast-scaling legal AI startup backed by Index Ventures and General Catalyst. Sitting at the intersection of law and product, she offers a unique perspective on what it means to be an “AI-native” legal function—where lawyers don’t just advise the business, but actively shape how legal work is delivered. Her first lesson centres on thinking like the business . Lucy explains why legal advice cannot exist in isolation and how understanding commercial drivers—often expressed through metrics—allows lawyers to prioritise effectively and deliver more impactful guidance. Her second lesson highlights the power of networks , both internally and externally. Whether navigating uncertainty, making career decisions, or solving unfamiliar problems, she emphasises the importance of knowing who to turn to and building relationships before you need them. Finally, she focuses on curiosity —encouraging lawyers to embrace new technology, experiment with AI tools, and develop “legal engineering” skills. Rather than waiting for perfection, she advocates for a mindset of testing, learning, and iterating—mirroring how modern tech teams operate. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Wordsmith AI — the legal AI platform built specifically for in-house teams. Guest Recommendations Song: The Chain – Fleetwood Mac Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Register your interest in joining The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB Legal Engineering Project (Slack Community for in-house lawyers): [APPLICATION FORM LINK] Wordsmith AI: https://www.wordsmith.ai/ Listen to the Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/4 YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/ Connect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/ About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave a review, and share it with someone building their career in legal leadership. Chapters: 00:00 Opening insight – Metrics, AI & modern legal roles 00:48 Scott introduces Lucy Tyrrell, GC at Wordsmith AI 03:39 Inside a legal tech business & AI-native legal teams 09:23 Lesson 1 – Think like the business 16:06 From private practice to in-house & startup life 20:48 Lesson 2 – Your network is everything 29:50 Career opportunities driven by relationships 31:31 Lesson 3 – Stay curious & embrace change 40:53 Hot or Not – KPIs, AI & legal team performance 47:21 Walk-on song, legal engineering & closing reflections

Jonathan Wiseman, General Counsel and Chief People Officer at Ocado Retail, joins Scott Brown to share practical lessons on influence, adaptability, and building a truly commercial legal career. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law , Jonathan reflects on his dual role leading both legal and people functions within a fast-growing retail joint venture between Ocado and Marks & Spencer. He shares why the most effective in-house lawyers don’t stay confined to their “legal lane,” but instead operate confidently in the grey areas between legal risk, commercial decision-making, and broader business strategy. Jonathan’s second lesson centres on career progression—encouraging lawyers to take opportunities when they arise, even when they don’t perfectly align with a pre-defined plan. He candidly discusses his initial hesitation in stepping into a Chief People Officer role and how that decision ultimately expanded his leadership capability and perspective. His final insight focuses on commercial judgement. Rather than trying to “win” every legal point, he explains why the best long-term outcomes come from building sustainable relationships and balancing legal precision with business reality. It’s a reminder that success in-house is as much about collaboration and trust as it is about technical expertise. Listeners also get a glimpse into Jonathan’s personal side, from navigating music choices on family car journeys to his reflections on how AI is already reshaping both legal and HR functions. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Wordsmith AI — the legal AI platform built specifically for in-house teams. Wordsmith Legal AI Guest Recommendations Song: Waterloo Sunset – The Kinks Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Register your interest in joining The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB Listen to the Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/4 YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/ Connect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/ About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave a review, and share it with someone building their career in legal leadership. Chapters 00:00 Opening insight – AI, judgment & modern legal roles 00:56 Scott introduces Jonathan Wiseman, GC & CPO Ocado Retail 03:13 The dual role – Legal, HR & executive leadership 07:04 Lesson 1 – Don’t stay in your swim lane 12:57 Developing commercial thinking in lawyers 19:09 Lesson 2 – Take opportunities (even if they don’t fit the plan) 24:22 Leading people, culture & HR at exec level 34:54 Lesson 3 – The best deal isn’t always the right deal 40:32 Hot or Not – AI, legal value & the role of GC 47:24 Walk-on song, music & closing reflections

Episode 100: Perspective, Candour, and Strategic Leadership — Rachel Canham, Rentokil Initial In the 100th episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Rachel Canham, Group General Counsel and Company Secretary at Rentokil Initial, reflects on what it actually takes to operate as a strategic leader at executive level — across a legal function of around 70 lawyers spanning 90 countries. Rachel stepped into her first "top seat" role after a career that took her from private practice through senior in-house roles, and the shift required more than technical excellence. It required a change in mindset and responsibility that she's still refining. Three lessons shape the conversation: Perspective. Shaped by personal adversity, Rachel explains why the best lawyers in a crisis aren't the ones who panic, but the ones who can zoom out and make balanced decisions when the stakes are highest. Calm, objective, clear-headed — and aware that most things are less catastrophic than they first appear. Candour. Rachel makes the case that candour is one of the most underrated qualities at senior leadership level — but only works if you've done the groundwork. Building trust, credibility, and human connection first is what earns you the right to be honest later, even when the message isn't well received. Strategic leadership. Rachel pushes back on the familiar "business partner" framing for in-house lawyers. Her view: lawyers shouldn't be partnering from the sidelines. They should be embedded in decision-making, contributing beyond legal advice, and taking an active role in delivering strategy. Rachel was recorded the same day she addressed the haggis at our Charity General Counsel Burns Supper — in a style I'm unlikely to forget. Genuinely grateful she agreed to be the 100th guest. About the guest Rachel Canham is Group General Counsel and Company Secretary at Rentokil Initial, the FTSE-listed pest control and hygiene services business. She leads a global legal function of around 70 lawyers across 90 countries and sits on the company's executive team. Guest recommendation Song: Belter — Gerry Cinnamon Resources mentioned Register your interest in The Lodge, Heriot Brown's in-house legal community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB Give us a Follow! Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/4 YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/ About the show Lessons I Learned in Law is the podcast from Heriot Brown, the specialist in-house legal recruitment firm. Host Scott Brown sits down with senior in-house lawyers to hear how they got where they are, what they wish they'd known, and what they're still trying to figure out. This episode is produced in partnership with Wordsmith — the legal AI platform built for in-house teams. Find more at heriotbrown.com . 00:00 Opening insight – The courage to be candid 01:13 Scott introduces Rachel Canham, GC Rentokil Initial 04:48 Stepping into the GC role & executive leadership 10:06 Lesson 1 – Perspective shapes better judgment 17:07 Lesson 2 – The power of candour in leadership 24:50 Lesson 3 – From business partner to strategic leader 30:18 Building commercial thinking & executive presence 33:38 Hot or Not – AI, legal leadership & career positioning 43:36 Personal brand, visibility & standing out as a lawyer 44:54 Walk-on so

Dean Nash, Global Chief Operating Officer for Legal at Banco Santander, joins Scott Brown to share practical leadership lessons from operating at scale within one of the world’s largest legal functions. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law , Dean reflects on his move away from the traditional General Counsel path into a newly created global operations role focused on transforming a 1,700-lawyer legal organisation. His first lesson centres on identifying and leaning into your unique strengths. Rather than obsessing over weaknesses, he explains how recognising what genuinely gives you energy can unlock unexpected career opportunities and shape more fulfilling leadership paths. Dean’s second lesson is grounded in execution: learning to create momentum and “get things done” in environments that often reward over-analysis. Drawing on experiences in early-stage fintech and global banking, he explores how in-house lawyers can think more commercially by treating legal support as a product that helps businesses grow while managing risk. His final reflection highlights the importance of maintaining interests beyond the day job. By building perspective and protecting personal identity from becoming too tied to professional roles, he argues that lawyers can remain clearer-headed advisers and more resilient leaders. Guest Recommendations: Book: Good to Great by Jim Collins Podcast: The Tim Ferriss Show Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Executive Counsel Accelerator (ECA): https://www.cpduk.co.uk/courses/heriot-brown-executive-counsel-accelerator-eca-course The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://forms.office.com/e/Pq7Uyv8xnS The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB Connect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/ Give us a follow · Spotify: https://lnkd.in/er928hqJ · Apple Podcast: https://lnkd.in/ea6Y4JYy · YouTube: https://lnkd.in/eAeMvrgz About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave a review, and share it with colleagues growing their careers in legal leadership. Episode Chapters: 00:00 Opening insight – Creating momentum in business 00:56 Scott introduces Dean Nash, COO Legal at Santander 03:00 Global legal operations role & transformation remit 08:37 Lesson 1 – Lean into your unique selling point 18:14 Lesson 2 – Get shit done & create commercial momentum 21:03 Helping the business make money faster – in-house mindset 25:52 Lesson 3 – Don’t let your identity become your job title 30:18 Did I Say This? – leadership quotes & light-hearted debate 32:29 AI governance, advisory roles & future of legal leadership 35:52 Book, podcast & walk-on song reflections

Justine Campbell, Chief Legal Officer at National Grid, joins Scott Brown to share grounded leadership insights from operating at the centre of a complex, global energy business. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law , Justine reflects on what it truly means to influence at senior level in-house. She explains why the most effective lawyers focus on delivering insight rather than just information, understanding business context, stakeholder priorities and the pace at which decisions need to be made. She also explores how strong legal leadership is built through assembling diverse, high-performing teams. From creating space for constructive challenge to investing in trusted peer networks outside the organisation, Justine shares candid reflections on how perspective shapes better judgement. Her final lesson centres on recognising the responsibility that comes with senior legal roles. Whether advising boards, managing crises or shaping organisational integrity, she highlights why lawyers must balance technical excellence with emotional intelligence and resilience. Listeners also hear personal insights, including her early ambitions outside law and the importance she places on maintaining curiosity throughout her career. Guest Recommendations: Podcast: The Rest is History Podcast: RUNA Book: Persuasion by Jane Austen Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Executive Counsel Accelerator (ECA): https://www.cpduk.co.uk/courses/heriot-brown-executive-counsel-accelerator-eca-course The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://forms.office.com/e/Pq7Uyv8xnS The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB Connect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/ About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave a review, and share it with colleagues building their careers in legal leadership. Chapters: 00:00 Opening reflection – Insight over information 00:48 Scott introduces Justine Campbell, CLO National Grid 02:35 Justine’s career journey & leadership scope 06:52 Lesson 1 – Insight matters more than technical brilliance 14:10 Building trust with stakeholders & commercial judgement 20:42 Lesson 2 – Leading teams through challenge and change 29:18 Developing future legal leaders & succession mindset 36:05 Lesson 3 – Owning your voice and influence 44:12 GC Hot or Not – Leadership visibility & career signals 49:30 Walk-on song, personal reflections & closing

Season 9 of Lessons I Learned in Law opens with a candid and wide-ranging conversation with Kevin Massie , Chief Legal, Risk, Governance and Compliance Officer at Imperial Brands PLC , a FTSE 30 business with 25,000+ employees globally. Just over a year into the role, Kevin reflects on stepping into one of the UK’s most senior in-house legal positions and why the title alone doesn’t guarantee influence. Kevin’s first lesson centres on work-life balance , but not in the traditional sense. From late-night IPO drafting as a trainee in Canada to navigating a demanding first year as GC alongside personal challenges at home, he shares why balance isn’t about rigid boundaries, it’s about building structures that allow you to flex when life demands it. His second lesson is a pivotal leadership moment: realising that if you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong room. Kevin explains how a near-miss on a major internal project reshaped his view of leadership, from proving individual brilliance to assembling and empowering people who think differently and better than you. The third lesson focuses on networking without agenda . Kevin recounts how a long-standing mentor invested in a relationship with no commercial expectation, a powerful reminder that authentic connection, not transactional networking, builds a durable career. Along the way, Kevin shares insights on succession planning, international mobility, building diverse leadership teams, and why lawyers must earn their seat at the table, it isn’t automatically granted. About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your network. 00:00 Genuine connection & networking mindset 00:52 Introduction – Kevin Massie, GC Imperial Brands 02:09 Scope of the GC role & global team structure 05:46 Icebreaker – Farming dreams & life in the Peak District 07:20 Lesson 1 – Work-life balance isn’t binary 10:19 Setting boundaries & supporting junior lawyers 12:05 International career moves – Canada to Dubai to Cape Town 15:34 Lesson 2 – If you’re the smartest in the room, leave 18:24 Leadership growth & building stronger teams 21:45 Succession planning & developing future GCs 26:43 Expanding remit – Risk, governance & board exposure 29:30 Earning a seat at the executive table 31:28 Lesson 3 – Networking authentically & giving back 35:04 Spotting real relationships vs transactional networking 37:29 GC Hot or Not – Legal conferences & business partnering 39:55 International mobility for in-house lawyers 41:05 US firms vs Magic Circle debate 43:01 Walk-on song & episode wrap-up

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues! This week, Scott is joined by Jim Reid , Chief Legal Officer at Fortis , the $35bn North American utilities group headquartered in Newfoundland, Canada. Jim’s career shift is one many lawyers dream about but rarely execute—moving directly from partnership at leading Canadian firm Davies into his first-ever in-house role as a general counsel. In this episode, Jim reflects on the lessons forged during nearly twenty years in private practice and the mindset required to thrive once inside the C-suite. His first lesson centres on resilience —not the glossy version, but the kind earned through long hours, unpredictable workflows, cancelled holidays, and early-career mistakes. Jim explains why resilience, more than intelligence or technical talent, is what determines who survives and progresses in the high-intensity world of transactional law. His second lesson explores the real engine of a legal career: people . From dealing with difficult partners and stressed clients to mentoring junior lawyers, Jim explains why being respected, curious and reliable matters far more than chasing perfection. It’s people—not deal sheets—that shape the most meaningful parts of a legal career. Jim’s final lesson is a powerful one for any lawyer eyeing the GC seat: get comfortable being uncomfortable . He recounts how stepping into an executive role required him to stop hiding behind subject-matter expertise and instead contribute to broad business decisions, even when surrounded by industry veterans. As CLO, his job is no longer to simply advise—but to decide. Jim also discusses leading a decentralised legal structure across ten utilities, the importance of local presence in regulated markets, building credibility as a business leader, and why live music—from Canadian icons The Tragically Hip to The Lumineers—remains his favourite way to reconnect with people. Guest Recommendations 🎧 Walk-on Song: The Tragically Hip – Canada’s most iconic band, known for storytelling, hockey references and emotional connection. About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth. 🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI , the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams. This week, Scott is joined by Stephanie Lopes , Chief Legal Officer at Volt.io , the UK-based fintech scale-up powering global instant payments through open banking. Stephanie joined Volt after a decade in the tech transactions team at Bird & Bird, where she worked closely with the founders from their earliest days and even drafted Volt’s first client contract. In this conversation—recorded just weeks before she goes on maternity leave—Stephanie reflects on her four years helping Volt grow from around 40 employees to more than 150. She shares how secondments across organisations like the Bank of England, Nestlé, and ABB shaped her understanding of what good (and not-so-good) in-house looks like, and how that experience gave her the confidence to join the business post-Series A. Her lessons shine a light on modern, commercial in-house practice: the importance of clear communication , especially when working cross-functionally; the courage to hold your values , particularly when ethical questions arise at executive level; and embracing your role as a business leader , not just a lawyer—balancing legal judgment with product, people, and operational understanding. Stephanie also discusses preparing her team for her upcoming leave, implementing tools like Ironclad, using AI thoughtfully (including for tone in emails), and the unexpected joy of running an Instagram-famous household of guinea pigs. Guest Recommendations 🎧 Walk-on Song: “Sweetness” by Jimmy Eat World – Stephanie’s “absolute banger” for any victory lap. 🎧 Runner-up: “Blitzkrieg Bop” by Ramones. About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth. 🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI , the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams. This week, Scott is joined by Katja Fenton , General Counsel and Executive Team Member at Fugro , the global geo-data company supporting safer infrastructure, offshore wind development, cleaner energy, and sustainable cities. Remarkably, Katja joined the conversation during her first 90 days —a pivotal moment when lessons feel sharpest, transitions feel largest, and instincts matter most. Katja reflects on the early months of stepping into C-suite leadership while taking on responsibility for a global legal & compliance function of around 60 professionals across four regions. Her first lesson— integrity is trusting your gut, even when it’s uncomfortable —comes from a defining moment early in her career, when she turned down a high-profile international assignment because the work didn’t align with her values. She shares how that instinct has shaped her approach to ethics, leadership, and decision-making ever since. Her second lesson explores the quiet but transformative power of allyship and sponsorship : the people who open doors for you when you’re not in the room. Katja discusses the individuals who have championed her career—from a sixth-form teacher who changed her university path, to leaders who offered opportunities at critical moments—and why she now feels a responsibility to pay it forward. Her final lesson reframes imposter syndrome as evidence of growth. From Dubai’s major construction projects to stepping into the executive team at Fugro, Katja describes how feeling out of depth has consistently signalled the start of her biggest periods of development. Katja also speaks candidly about global mobility, returning to Europe after years in Asia, building diverse teams, raising three young children in the Netherlands, and the importance of curiosity as a core legal skill. Guest Recommendations 📚 The First 90 Days – A practical guide for transitions into new roles. 📚 The Culture Map – Essential reading for navigating multicultural teams. 🎧 The Moth – True storytelling, live and unscripted. 🎧 Lessons I Learned in Law – Katja’s go-to podcast on her commute. This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai/ to learn more. About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth. 🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI , the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams. This week, Scott is joined by Andy Cooke , Chief Legal Officer at Perk , the global business travel and expenses platform. Andy shares a grounded, refreshingly practical look at what it means to build and lead an in-house legal team inside a high-growth tech company. Drawing on his experience at Perk and his earlier career in private practice and in-house, Andy unpacks three lessons centred on product thinking, influence and culture. He explains why lawyers should view their work as a product used by internal customers and why simplicity, clarity and usability matter more than long memos. Andy also reflects on the real source of influence inside a business: not job titles or hierarchy, but delivering outcomes that genuinely move the needle. His final lesson focuses on culture as a strategic asset . From hiring curious, low-ego team members to designing processes that scale, Andy shows how the right cultural foundations help legal teams operate as enablers—not gatekeepers—in fast-moving organisations. Away from work, Andy talks about the joy of being back home in Yorkshire after time abroad, and how grounding himself in family, community and routine keeps him balanced. This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai to learn more. About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth. 🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI , the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams. This week, Scott is joined by Carolyn Herzog , Chief Legal Officer and Board Secretary at Elastic , the Dutch-headquartered, NYSE-listed global search and AI company. With a career spanning senior legal roles at Symantec , Arm , and now Elastic, Carolyn has led through major transformations in cybersecurity, semiconductors, and artificial intelligence. In this episode, Carolyn shares three lessons that have shaped her approach to leadership and modern legal practice. Her first, Perception is Reality , explores the importance of feedback and empathy—how understanding others’ viewpoints, not proving you’re right, is the key to influence. Her second lesson, Thriving in the Grey Zone , challenges the traditional black-and-white view of legal advice, focusing instead on partnership, pragmatism, and helping the business navigate complexity. And her third lesson, Make It Actionable , calls on in-house lawyers to move beyond advice into operational execution—turning words into outcomes. Carolyn also discusses Elastic’s fully distributed work model, the rise of legal operations, and the responsible use of AI. She offers an optimistic take on how technology will reshape, not replace, the legal profession—urging lawyers to stay curious and proactive to future-proof their careers. Guest Recommendations 🎧 Respect by Aretha Franklin – Her ultimate walk-on song and tribute to the Queen of Soul. 📚 Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell – Exploring how small shifts create transformative change. This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai to learn more. About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth. 🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI , the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams. This week, Scott is joined by Emily Barker , Global General Counsel and Executive Committee member at Arcadis , the Dutch-headquartered, Euronext-listed design, engineering, and sustainability consultancy employing more than 32,000 people worldwide. Emily reflects on stepping into her first executive leadership role, moving beyond legal advice to help shape global business strategy. She shares how courage and optimism, two qualities not traditionally associated with lawyers, can transform teams and drive real-world change. Her first lesson explores the power of a forward-looking mindset in tackling challenges like climate transition and sustainability. Emily’s second lesson, global vision, local wisdom , highlights the importance of understanding local culture and nuance in a global business. As an Australian lawyer fluent in Dutch and embedded in the Netherlands, she’s a rare hybrid leader who bridges global strategy with local insight. Her final lesson focuses on human-centred leadership, why empathy, collaboration, and connection now matter more than technical precision. From managing a 130-person legal team to navigating cultural complexity, Emily’s story is a masterclass in modern in-house leadership. Guest Recommendation 🎧 Iggy Pop Confidential – A BBC Radio 6 show blending indie classics, eclectic sounds, and the raw voice of a rock legend. This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai to learn more. About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth. 🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI , the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams. This week, Scott is joined by James Sullivan , an experienced General Counsel and business leader who most recently served as Group General Counsel at Bitstamp , one of the world’s longest-standing cryptocurrency exchanges. James shares an inside look at what it’s like leading legal in the fast-moving world of digital assets — an industry that blends rapid innovation with complex regulation. With a background spanning GC, Chief Risk Officer, COO , and compliance leadership roles, he reflects on how stepping beyond pure legal work has shaped his perspective on what makes an effective in-house function. His lessons are refreshingly practical. He explains why every GC should define their own role and make legal’s work matter to the business, how to know your own value and bring the right version of yourself to each organisation, and why it’s vital to own your career path — being brave enough to change direction when it no longer fits. From negotiating a global remit to completing an executive MBA, James’s story blends commercial thinking with curiosity, adaptability, and a deep sense of purpose. Guest Recommendations 📘 What Got You Here Won’t Get You There by Marshall Goldsmith – A must-read for senior lawyers transitioning into leadership roles. 🎧 Political Currency with Ed Balls and George Osborne – Smart, balanced political debate across perspectives. 🎧 The Rest is Politics and The Rest is Politics: US – Insightful and entertaining political commentary. This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai to learn more. About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth. 🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI , the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams. This week, Scott is joined by Jonathan Cope , Managing Director of the Specialty Lines business at RSA Group Insurance . After a decade as General Counsel and executive-team member, Jonathan made the rare move from legal leadership into a commercial managing-director role. He reflects on what it’s been like to step out of law after nearly twenty years and into a market-facing position in an industry built on relationships. Jonathan shares three grounded lessons. First, the power of responsiveness, why speed, clarity, and reliability still define trusted relationships, whether with clients, colleagues, or brokers. Second, how to handle mistakes : why openness and calm are the marks of true professionals, and how his own early misstep reshaped his career for the better. And third, the value of positive mental imagery, using focus, breathing, and mindset to overcome nerves and lead confidently in new environments. His story is an honest and encouraging reflection for any lawyer considering a career pivot, showing how adaptability and curiosity can open doors far beyond traditional legal paths. Guest Recommendations 📚 The Prayer for Owen Meany by John Irving – A brilliantly written story with an unforgettable ending. 🎧 Desert Island Discs – Timeless conversations on life and music. 🎧 The Rest is History / The Rest is Politics – Smart, accessible takes on world events. This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai to learn more. About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth. 🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI , the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams. This week, Scott is joined by Portia Thornhill , General Counsel and Partner at Elixirr , the challenger consultancy competing with the Big Four. Portia shares her journey from nearly a decade at Allen & Overy to building a thriving in-house career that ultimately led to partnership an exceptional recognition for an in-house lawyer. Her lessons are grounded in resilience and reinvention. She reflects on stepping away from private practice to focus on family, rebuilding confidence after five years out of work, and rediscovering her professional voice through roles at Johnson Matthey, Kambi, and now Elixirr. Portia also shares how mentorship, trust, and belief, both given and received, were key to her transition into leadership. In her second lesson, she dives into how Elixirr integrates AI across legal and consulting functions, offering a pragmatic take on how lawyers can use technology to amplify, not replace, human insight. Finally, she explores the power of communication, self-awareness, and integrity in leadership skills honed through coaching, self-reflection, and a commitment to personal growth. This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai to learn more. About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth. 🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law , leave us a review, and share it with your network.