Secrets from the Green Room

Irma and Karen talk about the importance of the major dramatic question in writing fiction, and what they’ve been reading lately in Book Chat. Then Karen talks to Alice Pung about Alice’s unusual process of writing her first book in close contact with a publisher, how writing as a young person with no filters contributed to her early success, how she writes non-fiction with fiction techniques and vice versa, why she finds writing non-fiction harder than fiction, how giving talks to bored 14-year old boys enhanced her public speaking skills, why she has never wanted to be a fulltime writer, how she became penfriends with John Marsden, and how she thought she’d received spam when an email came through saying she’d been awarded an OAM. About Alice Alice Pung is the bestselling author of two memoirs, two novels, an essay collection, several children’s books, and the editor of two anthologies. Her books have been published both in Australia and overseas and have won or been short listed for many awards. In 2022 she was awarded an Order of Australia Medal for her services to literature. She is a qualified practicing lawyer and lives in Naarm Melbourne. Find out more about Irma and Karen Visit Irma Gold’s website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Visit Karen Viggers’ website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Follow Secrets From the Green Room on Instagram and Facebook

Irma and Karen make an exciting announcement about the future of the podcast, then discuss a cautionary tale involving a freelance editor and AI. Then Karen talks to journalist and feminist author Virginia Haussegger about how she became a TV journalist and was sent to Darwin to make all her mistakes, how working on TV has both changed and not changed for women since the 1980s, the ways that deadlines help her to write, how book ideas strike her like meteorites, why counting her writing hours on an app helps, and the outrage of discovering her latest book, Feminist Fightback , shelved under military history! About Virginia Virginia Haussegger AM is an award-winning television journalist, writer and commentator. She has worked in the TV and newsprint media for over 30 years both in Australia and overseas. She’s reported for current affairs programs and anchored the primetime national news in five capital cities, including 15 years in Canberra. She’s a public speaker, a podcaster, an ACT Australian of the Year, and a strong advocate for women. Show notes Ubud Writers and Readers Festival Freelance Editors’ Network IPEd Find out more about Irma and Karen Visit Irma Gold’s website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Visit Karen Viggers’ website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Follow Secrets From the Green Room on Instagram and Facebook

Irma and Karen talk about starting your novel with a bang to get readers’ attention. Then in our new occasional series, Karen talks to debut novelists Sarah Walker and Sam Elliott about the process of getting their first books published, how Sam bounced back from workplace bullying to write fiction, how Sarah got an overseas agent, the ways having an agent or winning an award helps with getting published, what Sam learned through podcasting that helped with publishing, and the news that made Sarah scream at her workplace. About Sarah and Sam Sarah Walker is a Naarm (Melbourne-based) writer, artist and photographer. Her first book, The First Time I Thought I Was Dying , a collection of non-fiction essays, won the Quentin Bryce Award. Her debut novel is The Water Takes . Sam Elliott is an author and interviewer. He is the founder and host of The Write Way podcast on which he has interviewed many authors, including both Irma and me. Haze is his debut novel. He lives in Sydney. Find out more about Irma and Karen Visit Irma Gold’s website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Visit Karen Viggers’ website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Follow Secrets From the Green Room on Instagram and Facebook

Karen and Irma chat about how to decide on the POV(s) for a novel, and how to listen to what the book itself wants to be. Then Irma talks to Melbourne Writers Festival Director Veronica Sullivan and Sorrento Writers Festival Director Corrie Perkin about their pathways to becoming directors of two of Australia’s biggest festivals, the way they plan their programs, practical advice on what writers and their publishers can do to break into the festival circuit, what writers do wrong when pitching to festivals and how to get it right, the controversy around the Sydney Writers Festival exclusivity clause and the Bendigo and Adelaide festival boycotts, what makes both a good panellist and a good panel, how Corrie’s devastating experience of closing her bookshop led to creating a new festival, and why an event with Behrouz Boochani had a profound impact on Veronica. About Corrie and Veronica Corrie Perkin began her career as a cadet reporter at the Age and over the next three decades, worked in a variety of editing and writing roles. In 2009, she opened an independent bookstore in Hawksburn that ran that for 12 years. Then in 2023, she founded the Sorrento Writers Festival, which has quickly grown to become Australia’s second-biggest literary festival. Veronica Sullivan began as a volunteer at Melbourne Writers Festival, then went on to intern at the Emerging Writers’ Festival. She was a founding board member and then program manager of the Feminist Writers Festival, and then became head of programming at The Wheeler Centre, before assuming her current role as Director of Melbourne Writers Festival. Show Notes Melbourne Writers Festival Sorrento Writers Festival Find out more about Irma and Karen Visit Irma Gold’s website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Visit Karen Viggers’ website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Follow Secrets From the Green Room on Instagram and Facebook

Karen and Irma chat about structuring a novel, in particular the use of prologues and epilogues. Then in the first of an occasional series with debut authors, Irma talks to Dominic Amerena and Lisa Moule about the challenging process of writing their first novels, how to trust your writing instincts, their very different paths to finding agents and publishers, the brutal reality of rejection (how it stopped Dominic writing novels for a decade and why one rejection made Lisa cry like a teenage girl), how to best approach agents, how writing short form pieces helped lay the ground for their novels, why Lisa Moule decided not to voice her own audiobook (even though she is a voice actor), and Lisa’s Teams mishap with a psychedelic filter during her first important publishing meeting. About Lisa and Dominic Lisa Moule is the author of The Mother of All Calamaties , released in March this year by Allen & Unwin. She is also an actor, voice artist, and presenter of 3CR’s ‘Published or Not’ program. She is based in Naarm/Melbourne. Dominic Amerena is the author of I Want Everything , which was the first novel published by Summit Books, the new literary imprint of Simon & Schuster, just over a year ago. It has since won or been shortlisted for a number of awards. He lives in Greece, and is coming to us from Athens today. Find out more about Irma and Karen Visit Irma Gold’s website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Visit Karen Viggers’ website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Follow Secrets From the Green Room on Instagram and Facebook

Irma and Karen answer a listener question about the transition from emerging writer to established, then chat about their latest reading recommendations. Then Karen talks to poet Robbie Coburn about how discovering Edgar Allan Poe when he was 14 was like being let out of jail, how mimicking great writers can help develop your writing early on, how he connects poems to memories like songs, the best way for poets to get their work out into the world, the value of mentorship for poets, why allowing horses to gallop into his work helped him find himself as a writer, how to persist despite devastating rejection, and how his granny would have been proud of him receiving an award sticker for his verse novel. About Robbie Robbie Coburn is the author of several poetry collections and a young adult verse novel The Foal in the Wire . He has published several chapbooks and zines, and his poems have been published in numerous Australian and international journals. He has run poetry workshops for Headspace – a youth mental health organisation. He grew up on a farm in regional Victoria and now lives in Melbourne. Find out more about Irma and Karen Visit Irma Gold’s website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Visit Karen Viggers’ website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Follow Secrets From the Green Room on Instagram and Facebook

Karen and Irma chat about the environmental cost of publishing books, and uncover some positive take-aways. Then Irma talks to children’s author Ingrid Laguna about how running away from home impacted her as a creative, how the traumatic experience of losing her own twin boys led to her memoir and then a novel for kids, why her agent didn’t want to pitch her book but then her publisher ended up loving it, why kids books need to tackle tough subjects, how to keep going when you’re writing about traumatic personal events, writing book recommendations, and top tips for engaging school visits. About Ingrid Ingrid Laguna is a multi-award-winning novelist and educator. She has published a memoir and numerous books for children. Her work has been published internationally, featured by Reading Australia and given Notable recognition by the CBCA. Ingrid’s writing has featured in various publications, including The Monthly, The Age, Teacher Magazine and the AEU Magazine . She runs a range of writing courses and regularly presents to teachers and students at schools, libraries, festivals and conferences. Show notes Why plantation stock is better for making paper Arts Law for any legal issues The Writer’s Room by Charlotte Wood The 90-Day Novel by Alan Watts Find out more about Irma and Karen Visit Irma Gold’s website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Visit Karen Viggers’ website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Follow Secrets From the Green Room on Instagram and Facebook

Irma and Karen talk about how different platforms – Instagram, Facebook, X, Substack and author websites – help sell books (or don’t!) Then Karen chats to Toni Jordan about how to successfully inject serious subjects with humour, the book to film process of Addition , why she structures her life to the nth degree but with writing is completely unstructured, how to approach writing as a business and why networking should be reframed, why being a skilled public speaker is important as a writer, how she has managed to make a living as a writer, the painful experience of having a book that didn’t sell well, and how that then led to her greatest career high. About Toni Toni Jordan is an award-winning, internationally best-selling author of 8 novels. Her debut novel Addition was longlisted for the Miles Franklin Award and has recently been made into a film. Her novel Nine Days was awarded Best Fiction at the 2012 Indie Awards, and Our Tiny, Useless Hearts was longlisted for the Dublin Literary Award. Toni is a physiologist who has also completed a PhD in creative writing and she lives in Melbourne. Show Notes 'Social Media is Dead – Old School Marketing Tactics for Creatives' by Creative Plus Business ‘Millions of Followers? For Book Sales, it’s Unreliable’ on the New York Times ‘If you get a million views on a social media post, how many books will you sell?’ on Nicola Washington’s substack post about a viral Tweet about a book event that no one showed up to. Find out more about Irma and Karen Visit Irma Gold’s website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Visit Karen Viggers’ website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Follow Secrets From the Green Room on Instagram and Facebook

Karen and Irma talk about the importance of writers centres, and urge listeners to sign the Writers Victoria petition. Then Irma chats to Tasma Walton about novelising the story of her ancestor Nannertgarrook, how she protected herself in the process of writing about trauma, the reclamation of her Boonwurrung language and the importance of language in her novel, how writing and acting feed into each other, the challenges of writing versus acting, how writers rooms for TV and film work, and an embarrassing green room encounter with an Australian music legend. About Tasma Tasma Walton is a proud Boonwurrung woman from the saltwater country of Melbourne and surrounding coastlines. She has had a hugely successful career as an actor in film and television, with acclaimed roles in everything from Blue Heelers and The Secret Life of Us to Mystery Road and How to Please a Woman . In 2009, her first novel, Heartless , was nominated for an ABIA Award, and the first book in her children’s series Nerra: Deep Time Traveller was longlisted for the DANZ Children’s Book Award. Her most recent novel, I am Nannertgarrook , won the 2025 ARA Historical Novel Prize. Show notes Writers Victoria petition I am Nannertgarrook Find out more about Irma and Karen Visit Irma Gold’s website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Visit Karen Viggers’ website , or follow her on Instagram and Facebook Follow Secrets From the Green Room on Instagram and Facebook

Karen and Irma debate whether AI is useful to break writer’s block. Then they both chat to Fleur McDonald about pioneering the way in rural crime writing, how she built her profile over the years and then rebranded, connecting emotionally with readers, using imposter-syndrome to motivate her next book, how an imaginary character changed her life, fighting for your rights as an author and why she changed publishers, why making a difference with her writing is so important to her, how experts help inform her crime fiction, why she is refusing to use AI, the value of having an agent (especially when you’re having a hissy fit!), why she insists on being involved in planning the publicity campaign, and how meeting her writing hero left her speechless. About Fleur Fleur McDonald is a prolific bestselling rural crime author who lives in Western Australia. She’s published 26 novels and sold over a million books, with her 27th book out in April. She is an active public speaker and an advocate for rural women experiencing domestic violence. She has worked as a jillaroo, and then a farmer and parent, and is now a fulltime author. Show notes ‘Should you use AI to break writer’s block?’ in The Conversation ‘AI can help authors beat writer’s block, says Bloomsbury chief’ in The Guardian DV Assist

Irma and Karen chat about the year ahead, and dive into their first Book Chat of the year, championing Hamnet by Maggie O’Farrell, and Colony by Annika Norlin. Then Karen talks to Colombian writer Ingrid Rojas Contreras about how she coped with all the international attention after being a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize, how the violence of the Pablo Escobar era stimulated her curiosity as a writer, caring for yourself when writing from trauma, how she uses inherited stories and hauntings in her work, how she involved her family in fictionalising her childhood, how she hid microphones to collect her mother’s stories, using dreams in fiction, and why losing her memory was the best thing that’s ever happened to her. (Karen met Ingrid at the Ubud Writers & Readers Festival 2025) About Ingrid Ingrid Rojas Contreras was born and raised in Bogotá, Colombia. Her memoir, The Man Who Could Move Clouds won the California Book Award and was a finalist in multiple awards, including the Pulitzer Prize. Her debut novel was Fruit of the Drunken Tree , and her essays and short stories have appeared in numerous literary magazines. She lives in California.

In a special series direct from the Ubud Writers & Readers Festival, Karen chats to Craig Leeson (impact filmmaker) about how growing up in Tasmania made him an environmental activist, how to find a hook to capture your audience, how to tell a story in few words, the importance of character development, how to keep an audience engaged, how to avoid overwhelming people when telling tough stories, and how hitting the lowest low of his career paved the way for the highest high. Supported by the ACT Government About Craig Craig Leeson is an acclaimed Australian filmmaker, television presenter, explorer, public speaker, and entrepreneur. He is the director, narrator, and writer of the multi-award-winning documentary feature films A Plastic Ocean , and The Last Glaciers: Journey To The Extreme . He was the 2022 Tasmanian Australian of the Year and is an International Fellow of the Explorers Club.

In a special series direct from the Ubud Writers & Readers Festival, Karen chats to Indian author, winner of the 2025 International Booker Prize, Banu Mushtaq about what drives her to write about the fundamentalist Muslim community in which she grew up, how she became an activist for women’s rights, how stories can change lives and culture, the process of working with her translator, how she injects humour into dark stories, the censorship she faces, and the meaningful impact of winning the Booker. Supported by the ACT Government About Banu Banu Mushtaq is an Indian writer, activist, and lawyer from the Karnataka region of southern India. She is best known for Heart Lamp , a selection of her short stories translated by Deepa Bhasthi, which won the International Booker Prize in 2025. She has published six short story collections, a novel, an essay collection, and a poetry collection. Her work has been translated into Urdu, Hindi, Tamil, Malayalam and English.

In a special series direct from the Ubud Writers & Readers Festival, Irma chats to German author, winner of the 2024 International Booker Prize, Jenny Erpenbeck, about the pros and cons of coming from a family of famous writers, why she mourns aspects of the German Democratic Republic and is driven to express this through writing, how she weaves the personal and political together, the translation process, the financial support available to German authors that we do not have in Australia, why the worst moment of her career was having one of her plays produced, and the best was finding out she’d won the Booker (while busting for the toilet!) Supported by the ACT Government About Jenny Jenny Erpenbeck is an acclaimed German novelist, playwright and opera director born in East Berlin. She has been translated into over 20 languages and has won many prizes, including the 2015 Independent Foreign Fiction Prize for The End of Days and the 2024 International Booker Prize for Kairos.

In a special series direct from the Ubud Writers & Readers Festival, Karen chats to Lech Blaine about how to shape a memoir and find a meaningful throughline within the truth, what it was like being edited by Helen Garner, how to decide what to leave out of a memoir, the ethical dilemmas of writing about trauma in relation to friends and family, how he found the voice for the ‘characters’ in his memoirs, how he scored his Quarterly essays and the way he approaches long-form essays, and what he loves and hates about the publishing process. Supported by the ACT Government About Lech Lech Blaine is the award-winning author of the two works of creative non-fiction/memoir Car Crash and Australian Gospel and two Quarterly Essays Top Blokes and Bad Cop . He was the 2023 Charles Perkins Centre writer in residence, and his writing has appeared in Good Weekend, Griffith Review, The Guardian and The Monthly .

In a special series direct from the Ubud Writers & Readers Festival, Irma chats to travel writer Nina Karnikowski about why she no longer wants to do a five-day trip to Paris and would rather opt for longer more immersive travel, tips for how to get started as a travel writer, why a luxury trip to Bali was one of her worst experiences, and how a moment with a polar bear in the Arctic changed her life, how she organises the various tasks that make up freelance travel writing, tips on how to pitch travel articles and why writing her memoir so quickly had huge benefits. Supported by the ACT Government About Nina Nina Karnikowski is a writer exploring how travel can help solve social and environmental problems. Having reported from over 60 countries, her work weaves together storytelling, systems thinking and a deep respect for place. She is the author of three books about travel and creative living, and a deck of writing prompt cards. Based in Byron Bay, she also mentors purpose-driven creatives.

In this episode Irma and Karen chat about the 2025 Ubud Writers & Readers Festival, painting a picture of the festival atmosphere and sharing some of the highlights. Then they ask six authors at the festival – Clare Wright, Jenny Erpenbeck, Lech Blaine, Yves Rees, Craig Leeson and Virginia Haussegger – to share a green room story. They uncover Bryan Brown’s funny festival request, Thomas Keneally's unwitting green room 'theft', Jenny Erpenbeck’s props room catastrophe, Annabel Crabb’s near miss, David Attenborough's pub oration, and how Virginia Haussegger burnt a hole in a green room floor. Supported by the ACT Government

Karen and Irma chat about early drafts and tips for gaining momentum again after a break. Then Irma talks to Sophie Cunningham in her role as Chair of the Australian Society of Authors about the impact of AI, the closure of Meanjin , the ASA’s role with industry issues, the ways in which authors need to change their expectations around publishing, how the Stella Prize changed the literary landscape, but also why prizes can be devastating for the majority who don’t make the lists, why we need to rethink the acquisition of independents by multinational publishing houses, and why seeing writing as a job helps her avoid the destablising effect of career highs and lows. About Sophie Sophie Cunningham has written 10 books, was co-founder of The Stella Prize, is a former editor of Meanjin , and a Member of the Order of Australia for her contributions to literature. She is currently a non-executive director of the Copyright Agency and the Chair of the Australian Society of Authors, which is the capacity in which we are chatting with her today.

Irma and Karen chat about the upcoming Ubud Readers & Writers Festival at which they will be recording interviews with several international writers, as well as some of the books they've been reading recently. Then both Karen and Irma chat to Craig Cormick about the pros and cons of big versus small publishers, how he’s got author gigs on cruise ships and what they’ve involved, how he’s managed to be such a prolific writer while having a full-time job as a science communicator and responsibilities as a carer, the ways he’s seen the publishing landscape change over the last three decades, how to prevent the shiny new idea from derailing your current project, advice for writers wanting to include First Nations characters in their books and how to go about it the right way, the industry differences between writing for adults and kids, how he has landed multiple Antarctica residencies, and why the highest moment of his career was also his lowest. ABOUT CRAIG Dr Craig Cormick is an award-winning author and science communicator. He writes books for children and adults, and stopped counting them somewhere after 30, but by our count he’s published 46 over the last xxx years. He is drawn to stories of people whose voices have been hidden from history, and his most recent book is Warra Warra Wai: How Indigenous Australians Discovered Captain Cook and What they Tell about the Coming of the Ghost People , which is co-written with Gunditjmara - Gunai-kurnai author Darren Rix.

Irma and Karen chat about small regional writers’ festivals. Then Karen talks to Emily Maguire about how a high school teacher initially crashed her dreams of becoming a writer, how she became a feminist without realising it, how she avoids putting her own opinions into the heads of her characters, how she has learned to focus her anger when writing about feminist issues, how much joy she gains from teaching creative writing, the impact of AI on the writing world, and some very important lifestyle questions you should consider if you want to be a fulltime writer. About Emily Emily Maguire is the author of seven novels and three non-fiction books. Her novel An Isolated Incident, published in 2016, was shortlisted for the Stella Prize and the Miles Franklin Literary Award. Her 2022 novel Love Objects and latest book Rapture have also been shortlisted or long listed for several awards. Emily has a Master of Arts in literature, and works as a mentor to young and emerging writers.