Work with Purpose: A podcast about the Australian Public Sector

After 164 episodes, we bid farewell to Work with Purpose. Marking this special occasion, IPAA ACT CEO Kate Driver turns the microphone around on host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, and one of the podcast’s first guests, IPAA National President Andrew Metcalfe AO. On the final episode before its hiatus, David and Andrew look back at over 160 stories told on Work with Purpose – starting with unpacking the government’s COVID-19 response. Together, they reflect on a podcast born out of a desire to let leaders speak clearly and without interruption, helping build confidence and understanding during a national crisis. David and Andrew explore what has changed since the podcast began, highlighting the rapid acceleration of technology, particularly artificial intelligence, alongside enduring themes such as relationships, integrity, trust and the craft of public service. Looking forward, they predict that integrity will remain one of the most important conversations for the sector, especially in light of failures such as Robodebt. They also encourage young people to seek careers in the public sector, and for the sector to in invest in its emerging leaders. To our listeners and guests – thank you for lending us your ears and your ideas over the past six years. It’s been a pleasure. Shownotes Work with Purpose podcast archive | IPAA ACT Spirit of Service Awards | IPAA ACT Episode 81 – Rebuilding trust and integrity after Robodebt | contentgroup Work with Purpose is created by contentgroup in association with IPAA ACT Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On the penultimate episode of Work with Purpose, Jaala Hinchcliffe, Secretary of the Department of Parliamentary Services, shines a light on the important, yet often unseen work of DPS, and discusses why integrity is not simply something people have or lack, but rather a skill that must be practised. When you make a mistake at work, what is your first impulse? Do you trust your leaders to work it through with you? On this episode, Jaala speaks with host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, about how managing mistakes – your own and others’ – shapes integrity culture in organisations. She argues that good leadership means building culture deliberately, practising integrity, supporting people to admit and fix mistakes, and preparing institutions like DPS for the future while protecting their democratic purpose. Jaala also explores how DPS supports parliament to function, and what it means to lead its highly diverse workforce, from art curation to research. Key tips: 1. Practise integrity before you need it . Talk through tricky scenarios with colleagues, build the habit of doing the right thing, and create space to raise concerns early. 2. Own mistakes quickly and respond constructively . If something goes wrong, name it, fix it, and learn from it. For leaders, the integrity test is how they respond: “Thank you for telling me — let’s fix it” builds trust and prevents bigger problems. 3. Build relationships and treat people well . The public service can feel large, but careers often reconnect people over many years. Be generous, form genuine connections, leave roles well, and ask for advice when you need it. Shownotes Secretary Series: Jaala Hinchcliffe, Secretary of the Department of Parliamentary Services | IPAA ACT Department of Parliamentary Services Work with Purpose is created by contentgroup in association with IPAA ACT Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Governments generate endless information, but so much of it goes unseen. So, how do we turn it into content people actually care about? In this special crossover episode of Work with Purpose and GovComms, David Pembroke chats with Heather Lansdowne, a leader in transforming social media in government. As the social media manager at the Australian Bureau of Statistics, Heather and her team are turning heads in the government space, proving that data can be engaging, relatable, and even fun. She’s helped reshape how agencies communicate, bringing bold ideas and engaging content to the table. Her fresh approach connects with audiences in ways traditional comms never could. From navigating government approvals to making stats go viral, Heather shares how agencies can rethink their content strategy. She talks about building trust with leadership, using humour to engage audiences, and why governments need to act more like digital publishers. Whether you're a social media pro or a government communicator looking to push boundaries, this episode is full of insights, strategies, and inspiration to help you create content that truly connects. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What happens when senior leaders step out of meeting rooms and into frontline service environments? In this episode of Work with Purpose, host Louise MacDonald, managing partner, at EY, Canberra speaks with Kirsty Kirk, director of Leadership Programs at Services Australia, and Ken Walker, National Manager, Emergency Response at Services Australia, about Services Australia’s Service Delivery Immersion Program. The program gives SES leaders and policy partners firsthand insight into how decisions, systems and policies land for staff and customers. By spending time in service centres and call environments, leaders see the complexity of frontline work, the needs of vulnerable customers, and the opportunities to make services simpler and more effective. Recognised through the IPAA ACT Spirit of Service Awards , the program has expanded across government and is helping build more empathetic, customer-centred leadership. Key tips: 1. Stay close to the people your work affects. Regularly step away from the desk to observe services, speak with communities, and see firsthand how policies and programs land in real life. 2. Design and decide from the user’s perspective. Ask, “What does this feel like for the person on the receiving end?”. Aim for interactions that are simple, human, and seamless. 3. Treat frontline staff as partners, not endpoints. Involve the people who deliver services in shaping policy, programs and systems. Listen to their insights, act on what you hear, and keep feedback loops open. 4. Lead with curiosity and empathy. Frontline immersion helps leaders better understand customer complexity, staff pressures, and the human impact of their decisions. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of Work with Purpose, we discuss how a widening gap between external change and internal capability in the public sector is becoming a major threat to both public trust and effective government. As governments navigate social media distortion, geopolitical instability, cognitive warfare and rapid advances in AI, many public institutions are still operating in rigid, slow-moving ways better suited to an earlier era. Guest host Michelle Ainsworth, former ABC politics editor and Churchill Fellow , speaks with Sir Geoff Mulgan, Professor of Collective Intelligence, Public Policy and Social Innovation at University College London alongside IPAA National Secretary Samantha Palmer , about why trust in government now depends on more than competence alone. Australia’s public service stands out internationally for its relative stability, integrity and institutional strength. Our panel discuss how Australia can use this advantage more ambitiously: to test new ideas, design better institutions and build models other democracies can learn from. The conversation explores how governments can respond to ethical failures more effectively, why public services need to become more transparent and conversational, and what it will take to avoid a new wave of AI-related public sector scandals. Key tips Trust is built through both competence and integrity. Public confidence depends not just on delivering results, but on being seen as honest, accountable, and guided by clear moral purpose. Governments need to innovate more systematically. Public institutions cannot afford to remain rigid while technology and public expectations move quickly around them. AI should be tested, staged, and governed carefully. Strong procurement, user testing, ethical oversight, and in-house capability are essential to avoid costly failures. Work with Purpose is produced by contentgroup in partnership with IPAA ACT Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this episode of Work with Purpose, the Hon Patrick Gorman, Assistant Minister for the Public Service, revisits performance, reform, and the future direction of the Australian Public Service. "It’s an incredibly patriotic thing to be a public servant", says Assistant Minister Gorman. At the same time, it requires consistent, positive frontline interactions as well as acting with integrity every day to ensure people continue to put their trust in the public service. So, what’s the minister’s vision for the future? On this episode, host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup and Assistant Minister Gorman dive into growing culturally and linguistically diverse representation at senior levels of the APS, and unpack AI‑driven economic change, climate transition, energy security, misinformation, and more. They also discuss the State of the Service Roadshow, and the importance of celebrating outstanding public sector initiatives, regional and remote service delivery, and engagement across the country through programs such as the Spirit of Service Awards . Key tips 1. Competent service matters more than high‑level narratives or messaging. Remain consistent, and respectful in every interaction you have. 2. Capability uplift needs to continue, this includes more diversity and the senior level. Empower and encourage those with diverse backgrounds. 3. Use artificial intelligence and digital tools to improve productivity and services, in a secure and ethical way and with strong data governance to maintain public confidence. Show Notes Public Service Amendment Act 2024 | APS Reform APS Employee Census 2025 | Australian Public Service Commission State of the Service Roadshow: 2026 | Australian Public Service Commission Spirit of Service Awards | IPAA ACT Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, speaks with APS CALD Champion Jim Betts, Secretary of the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Art, and Nu Nu Win, assistant secretary at the Department of the Treasury, about cultural diversity in the Australian Public Service and the work underway to create a more inclusive and representative senior leadership pipeline. Together, they explore how to challenge assumptions and why the APS still has a long way to go in turning commitment into meaningful change. The episode highlights emerging initiatives across the APS, including sponsorship, stronger staff networks and clearer institutional signals to support fairness, inclusion and better outcomes for the community the APS serves. Key tips: Start with evidence, then act on it. Strong data helps move the conversation beyond assumptions and shows where barriers are real and where action is needed most. Leadership signals shape outcomes. When leaders show a visible commitment to fostering inclusion, it positively influences who feels encouraged to apply, grow and see a future in the Australian public service. Inclusion happens in everyday decisions. Look closely at small moments where choices are made about who is invited in, supported, encouraged or sponsored. These actions can shape long-term career outcomes. The APS has an opportunity to lead. APS leaders have the unique ability to coordinate, act deliberately, and build a workforce that better reflects the community it serves. Show notes: APS Culturally and Linguistically Diverse Employment Strategy and Action Plan | Australian Public Service Commission Modelling Australian Public Service Careers | Tax and Transfer Policy Institute, Crawford School of Public Policy, ANU Cross-agency diversity networks (including CALD CONNECT) | Australian Public Service Commission APSC CALD Action Plan (2025–2028) | Australian Public Service Commission Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does it take to lead with purpose in one of Australia’s most complex public institutions ? In this episode of Work with Purpose, we hear from Rob Heferen, Commissioner of Taxation, about the responsibility of public servants to build trust, improve systems, and deliver better outcomes in complex, high pressure environments . Rob Heferen looks back on a career spanning tax policy, major reform and public sector leadership, from his early days in customs to leading the Australian Taxation Office. With host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, he shares what has shaped his approach to leadership and what sets public service apart: the opportunity to work for something bigger than yourself and improve outcomes for the public as a whole. Rob and David discuss the importance of developing expertise, communicating clearly, working collaboratively, and leading change carefully in environments shaped by complexity, risk and rapid technological change. Key tips : Develop deep expertise quickly but always keep sight of the bigger picture. Communicate clearly and avoid speaking in specialist jargon or code. Be someone people want to work with: reliable, collaborative and trusted. Stay grounded in the mission of public service and focus on better outcomes for the public. In complex, high-risk environments, lead change carefully, but do not lose the confidence to think bigger and act bolder. Show notes: Australia’s Future Tax System Review | Australian Treasury Australian Taxation Office ATO AI transparency statement | Australian Taxation Department The Tyranny of Merit | Michael Sandel Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Medicare Urgent Care Clinics offer free, walk-in care for urgent but non-life-threatening health issues. In this episode, we explore how the Department of Health and Aged Care turned a good idea into a service that’s taking pressure off busy emergency departments across Australia. Since opening in June 2023, Urgent Care Clinics have cared for over 2 million people and grown rapidly from an initial 50-clinic commitment to more than 90, with 137 expected by the end of 2025–26. It’s an impressive example of delivery at pace in the public sector, earning the Urgent Care Clinics team the 2025 Spirit of Service People’s Choice Award. Led by Adam Nettheim, Chief Customer Officer at Commonwealth Superannuation Corporation, Sarah Sinclair, Assistant Secretary, Urgent Care Branch and Sarah El-Sabagh, Director, Urgent Care Policy and Evaluation from the Department of Health, Disability and Ageing, this episode unpacks the practical decisions and partnerships behind this scale-up, with lessons you can apply in any service or program. They dive into what it takes to stand up quickly, build confidence with partners and providers, and make access easier for communities. *The People’s Choice Award is proudly sponsored by Commonwealth Superannuation Corporation. Key Tips Design around the user: build services to fit real lives, remove friction, make access simple, and focus on what people need in the moment. Move at pace by partnering well: strong relationships across the system are the engine room of delivery. Keep listening after launch: build feedback loops early so you can improve in real time, not “set and forget”. Stay anchored to outcomes: success is a better experience for people and less pressure on frontline services. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How does the government actually buy the things that keep Australia running, from everyday supplies to major infrastructure? In this episode of Work with Purpose , host Kate Driver speaks with Richard Windeyer, former Head of the APS Procurement and Contract Management Profession, and Deputy Secretary of the Department of Finance, along with Andrew Marsden and Kim Hunter, partners at O’Connor Marsden, to unpack something that quietly shapes almost every part of Australian life: government procurement. From paper clips to submarines, every ambulance, bridge, hospital, IT system, and research project has to be bought, managed, and justified. Together, our guests explore how more than $100 billion of taxpayer money each year is turned into public value, why integrity and transparency matter as much as price, and how both public servants and suppliers can navigate this space with confidence – especially in light of the recent changes to the Commonwealth Procurement Rules. Key Tips 1. Start early: the most important procurement decisions happen at the beginning, when defining the problem, engaging the market, and designing the right approach. 2. Talk to the market and do it well: early, transparent engagement helps agencies understand what is possible and leads to better outcomes while maintaining strong probity. 3. Integrity and transparency make decisions defensible: managing conflicts of interest, documenting decisions clearly, and ensuring fairness are essential to maintaining public trust. 4. Procurement is everyone’s business: if you design, approve, or manage work involving suppliers, you play a role in how public money delivers public value. Show Notes 2025 Commonwealth Procurement Rules | Department of Finance Australian Government Contract Management Guide | Department of Finance Procurement | Department of Finance Commonwealth Procurement and Contract Management Training Suite | Australian Public Service Academy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Trigger warning: themes of mental health/sexual assault. Robin Edmonds from the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communication and the Arts and Joey Ballantyne of Grit n Grace Collective talk about neurodiversity, developing a strong sense of self, and supporting people to learn and work in a way that helps them thrive. When Joey Ballantyne, founder of Grit n Grace Collective, speaks about breaking the survive/burnout cycle, and her late autism diagnosis, it comes from the heart. Driven by her own experience, she started her own neuro-affirming professional development program, built to empower atypical women in the workplace. In this special Work with Purpose conversation, Joey and guest host Robin Edmonds, co-chair and co-founder of the Australian Public Sector Neurodiversity Community of Practice and assistant director, Media Reform at the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communication and the Arts, shed light on the experiences of neurodivergent women in the workplace, and the specific challenges they face. They also talk about ways to get to know yourself, and how managers can build inclusive team cultures that benefit everyone. Key Tips Develop a strong sense of self and what you need in a work environment to succeed As a leader, give agency to your staff to show you how the work best. For example, ask people how they want to receive feedback Be clear about meeting purposes, take notes, and give people time to process. Show Notes Grit n Grace Collective Public Sector Neurodiversity Community of Practice | Australian Public Service Commission 2024 APS Census | Australian Public Service Commission Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this episode of Work with Purpose, we hear from Ray Griggs AO CSC about what working in the navy has taught him about taking and giving feedback, and why difficult conversations are part and parcel of becoming a better leader. Ray Griggs AO CSC looks back at a long and distinguished career in the public sector – from Australia’s Defence Force to most recently the Department of Social Services. Along the way, he navigated many difficult conversations, had his views contested, and at times, had to manage failure. In this conversation with host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, he tells us how these challenges contribute to growing as a leader – and as a human. They also discuss managing large-scale change in complex environments, why you should always do your own fact-checking, and how solutions through new technologies need to be co-designed with Australia’s communities. Key tips: How you respond to people’s views and ideas is crucial. Respond the way you’d like your own leaders to respond to you. Never neglect doing your own fact checking. Once you launch into the process, your credibility can be at risk. Work out how real a timeline is. Sometimes we impose unrealistic timelines on ourselves. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this landmark episode of Work with Purpose, host David Pembroke sits down with Her Excellency the Honourable Ms Sam Mostyn AC , Australia’s 28th Governor-General, for a deeply personal and wide-ranging conversation recorded at Government House. Marking one year and one day since her appointment, the Governor-General reflects on her journey from suburban Canberra to one of the nation’s highest offices. She shares insights into her upbringing, career, and the values that guide her leadership – care, kindness, and respect. Listeners will gain a rare glimpse into the evolving role of civic institutions, the importance of inclusive public service, and the power of storytelling in shaping national identity. From her early volunteerism to her work in law, sport, climate, and social justice, the Governor-General’s story is one of curiosity, courage, and commitment to community. In this episode, you’ll hear about her path to Governor-General, why care, kindness, and respect are central to her vision for modern leadership and public service, and how her diverse career shaped a holistic view of Australia’s institutions and the people who power them. This episode is a must-listen for anyone who cares about Australia’s future, the role of public service, and the values that bind us together. Key tips Champion civics education. Help build a more informed and engaged society by promoting understanding of Australia’s democratic systems and institutions Collaborate across sectors. Break down silos between public, private, and community sectors to foster innovation and shared purpose Lead with compassion. Embed care and kindness into everyday decision-making – whether in policy, leadership, or community engagement. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Have you ever considered what it takes to design public services that keep pace with technology while staying genuinely human-centred? In this episode of Work with Purpose, IP Australia Deputy Director-General Margaret Tregurtha joins Wendy Cohen, Deputy CEO of IPAA, to explore how modern public institutions can foster innovation, build trust and deliver services that meet evolving community needs. Listeners will gain a clear understanding of how intellectual property underpins Australia’s economic and cultural wellbeing, why recognising and protecting First Nations knowledge is essential to a fair and modern IP system, and what responsible adoption of emerging technologies like AI really looks like in practice. The conversation also highlights the mindsets and capabilities needed to drive meaningful change inside government, from embedding transparency and inclusion to creating cultures that support curiosity and continuous improvement. It offers a practical and grounded look at what it takes to build public services that are trusted, adaptive and ready for the future. Key Takeaways Human centred design is essential for modern public services. True transformation happens when services are built around people's real needs and expectations, not just new technology. Protecting First Nations knowledge strengthens Australia's innovation system. Recognising and safeguarding Indigenous Cultural and Intellectual Property is vital for fairness, cultural resilience and a modern IP framework. Responsible innovation depends on clear governance and a culture of curiosity. Emerging technologies like AI deliver public value only when supported by strong risk frameworks, purposeful leadership and teams empowered to learn and experiment. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this special International Men’s Day episode, Work with Purpose host David Pembroke , Founder and CEO of contentgroup, brings together two senior public sector leaders to explore what male role modelling looks like in practice, not in theory. Deputy Secretary David Mackay (Regions, Cities and Territories, Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, Sport and the Arts) and Michael Pohl (National Manager for Smart Centres across Regional NSW and the ACT at Services Australia) share candid reflections on leadership, identity, caregiving, cultural background, and the real pressures of balancing demanding roles with busy family lives. Listeners will hear lived experience, practical behaviours, First Nations perspectives, and personal stories that illuminate the difference male leaders can make in shaping respectful, healthy public sector workplaces. Key Tips People remember how leaders make them feel: small moments of validation or dismissal shape workplace culture more powerfully than formal feedback Lead with questions, not answers: curiosity and humility help unlock team insight, build trust, and create stronger decisions Normalise shared caregiving: taking parental leave and protecting family time strengthens leaders and helps shift outdated gender norms Be honest about the chaos: vulnerability creates psychological safety and helps teams feel understood and supported Show Notes Coro Canberra (David Mackay’s choir) Hartley Cycle Challenge (Michael’s charity ride) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Have you ever wondered how political leaders decide which issues make it to the top of the agenda? In this episode of Work with Purpose , host David Pembroke speaks with Professor Liam Smith and Dr Connor Wynn from Behaviour Works Australia to explore how politicians make high-stakes decisions under pressure and what the public sector can learn from the process. Drawing on extensive behavioural research, Smith and Wynn reveal how political leaders rely on heuristics , or mental shortcuts, to navigate complexity, limited time and competing demands. They explain how community sentiment, emotion, political capital and timing influence which policies rise to prominence, and how these forces shape outcomes across government. Listeners will learn how understanding the psychology of decision making can help them engage more effectively with ministers, anticipate shifting priorities and design advice that resonates. This is an engaging conversation about influence, timing and the human side of leadership in government, offering practical guidance for anyone working in or alongside the Australian Public Service. Key tips: Use the “wait and see” principle. Recognise when an issue is gaining traction and be ready to act when political and community momentum align. Seize the moment. Identify windows of opportunity created by events, media attention or public pressure, and present advice when decision makers are most receptive. Think like your audience. Understand how leaders and communities perceive an issue, and frame advice using real-world perspectives and public sentiment, not just technical evidence. Show notes : Behaviour Works Australia – behavioural science research and case studies: behaviourworksaustralia.org How the political elite make decisions - Wynn - 2025 - Australian Journal of Public Administration - Wiley Online Library Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does it really take to lead people well in a world of constant change? In this episode of Work with Purpose , host David Pembroke sits down with Jacqui Curtis, Chief Operating Officer at the ATO and Head of the APS HR Profession, and Eliza Kirkby, Managing Director at Hays, to explore how human resources in the Australian Public Service is being redefined. From the power of trust and genuine connection to the growing impact of AI and technology, Curtis and Kirkby share honest insights about what it means to be a people-focused leader today. They reveal how curiosity, courage and empathy can build stronger teams, shape culture and help leaders navigate complexity with confidence. Listeners will also hear how HR professionals are helping the APS evolve by embracing innovation, driving inclusion and belonging, and preparing for the workforce of the future. It’s an inspiring conversation about keeping people at the heart of transformation and leading with purpose when it matters most. Key tips Lead with curiosity and connection. Build trust through open communication, empathy and genuine listening. Be straightforward, approachable and real. Use technology wisely. Let AI and digital tools enhance people’s work rather than replace it. Create a sense of belonging. Inclusion and psychological safety are essential for high-performing teams. Stay open and ask for help. Strong leaders grow through curiosity and collaboration, not by having all the answers. Show notes Successful Public Governance | Utrecht University Speech to the American Society for Public Administration | Crawford School of Public Policy Pathways to Positive Public Administration An International Perspective | Book Has the time arrived for Positive Public Administration | The Mandarin Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of Work with Purpose, host David Pembroke speaks with Jamie Lowe , the Merit Protection Commissioner for the Australian Public Service and the Parliamentary Service, about how fairness, transparency and integrity are upheld across the APS. Described as the Commonwealth’s “workplace umpire,” Jamie and her office review promotion decisions, Code of Conduct inquiries and other workplace matters to make sure they’re not only lawful, but fair and correct. She explains how her team provides impartial review, carefully manages conflicts of interest, and works with agencies to lift capability and strengthen decision-making. Jamie also shares her career journey as a long-serving public servant, the lessons the APS can take from Robodebt, and why procedural fairness is essential in maintaining trust and confidence across the APS. Key tips: Document decisions clearly – thorough records ensure fairness and allow meaningful feedback in recruitment and promotions. Empower staff through reviews: Code of Conduct processes give people the confidence to raise concerns and strengthen workplace culture. Own-motion audits, shared case studies and communities of practice improve decision-making and integrity across the APS. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of Work with Purpose, David Pembroke speaks with Dr David Gruen AO Australian Statistician and the inaugural head of the APS Data Profession about the transformative role data plays in the public sector. The APS Data Profession, launched in 2020, it has grown from a pilot into a thriving community of 13,500 members across Commonwealth, state and territory governments. The profession is about more than technical skills. It’s building a culture of evidence-based decision making, giving leaders confidence in using data, and opening career pathways through graduate streams and cadet programs. Dr Gruen reflects on how communities of practice, the Data Capability Framework, and initiatives like the Data Awards are shaping a smarter, more collaborative public service ready for challenges like AI and machine learning. Key takeaways: Why data matters in government – the APS Data profession is building skills and a culture that supports evidence-based decisions. How the data profession is growing - from graduate programs to communities of practice, creating a strong pipeline of talent and collaboration What leaders need to know – why senior executives and decision makers must understand data to better shape outcomes for Australian citizens Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How do public servants make smart decisions when time is short and the stakes are high? In this episode, host David Pembroke is joined by two leading experts in organisational decision-making: Eric Barends , Managing Director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Management, and Alessandra Capezio , Associate Professor of Organisational Behaviour at the Australian National University. Together, they explore how public servants can make better decisions by combining data, research, stakeholder input, and professional experience. The conversation delves into the challenges of balancing instinct and evidence in fast-paced environments, the risks of relying on heuristics and cognitive biases, and the importance of cultivating a culture that supports critical thinking and evidence-informed practice. Key tips: Use multiple sources of evidence to support decision-making. Avoid relying solely on personal experience; combine organisational data, scientific research, stakeholder perspectives, and expert judgement. Challenge cognitive biases. Recognise common pitfalls like solution fixation and authority bias, and ask critical questions to uncover root causes. Build capability and culture. Equip teams with the skills and shared language to critically appraise evidence, even under time pressure, and foster leadership that values evidence-based practice. Show notes: Evidence-based tools and resources | Center for Evidence-Based Management website Online course on evidence-based management | CEBMa EBDM support, short courses and bespoke offerings | Associate Professor Alessandra Capezio via ANU Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.