Hiker Trash Radio

About the Guest Kaylee Frederick is a 21-year-old elite ultra-endurance athlete from Pennsylvania, currently studying biology and secondary education at the University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown (with a minor in chemistry, an ESL certification, and a STEM endorsement) while working four part-time jobs including forklift operator, assistant manager at a frozen custard shop, CrossFit coach, and tutor. At 18 she became the youngest person ever to finish the Badwater 135. She recently won the Eastern States 100 outright — first woman ever, first to break 24 hours, finishing 90+ minutes ahead of second place. She finished 12th female in the world at the 24-Hour World Championship in France. She trains with coach Eric Kosik. She ran a five-mile warmup before this interview at 4 AM New Zealand time. Her mom hiked the Appalachian Trail in 99 days. Her trail name is Thunder Butt. Episode Highlights Thunder Butt Badwater at 18 — On Cloud Nine Eastern States 100 — First Overall, First Under 24 Hours The Pain Cave — Mile 93, Age 16 24-Hour World Championship — Walking on Purpose Running for Her Dad — and Then Not The Youngest at the Finish Line Links & Resources Kaylee Frederick — Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/frederick.kaylee The Line — Billy Yang documentary on Badwater 135: https://www.youtube.com/@billyyang Eastern States Trail Endurance Alliance/Association: https://www.easternstates100.com Mount Coast T1 trail shoes — Kaylee's race shoe of choice. Recently also testing the lighter, more responsive M1. Eric Kosik — Kaylee's coach since January 2024. Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. The full interview with Kaylee drops Wednesday in two parts. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

For four episodes, this series followed people who look at a map and see a line that isn't there: across deserts, mountains, and cities. We saved this maker for last, because her story holds the final lesson. We first met Renee Patrick, trail name She-Ra, in Episode One, at the height of her craft: the longtime coordinator of the Oregon Desert Trail, a professional route maker who thought about the difference between a trail and a route more deeply than almost anyone. She was planning the hardest routes of her life. The next time we spoke, everything had changed. This finale tells her full arc: the architect at her peak, a life-altering diagnosis that brought her forward motion to a screeching stop, and the reinvention that followed. Because Renee is a thru-hiker, and a thru-hiker knows how to cover an impossible distance: incremental progress, one step at a time. The route maker who built some of the most remote, difficult trails in the country now wants to build the opposite: accessible routes, Camino-style trails, lines that the most people can walk. It's the perfect ending to a series about lines that never stop changing. Two episodes ago, in the city, we met the makers who bring the wilderness home. Renee, from the far end of the maker's world, arrives at the same truth: the best thing a route can do is include people. She's living proof that a maker's greatest line might be the one that lets the most people walk it. This episode is shared with Renee's blessing, and includes candid discussion of serious illness. It is, at its heart, a tribute to a route maker, and to the oldest thru-hiker wisdom there is: one step at a time, one day at a time. You can follow Renee's own writing at shera-hikes.com. If the themes in this episode resonate personally, please know that support is available. Featured route: Oregon Desert Trail (with the American Perimeter Trail and Great Western Loop referenced) Featured maker: Renee "She-Ra" Patrick (with Rue McKenrick and Andrew Skurka) This is the final episode of The Route Makers. A bonus episode — on the newest big trail in America — follows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Bradford "Rafiki" Bartels is a Marine Corps veteran, backcountry guide, and the first person to thru-hike the Alaska Long Trail — a roughly 500-mile route from Seward to Fairbanks, currently under development by Alaska Trails. Born in Soldotna, Alaska, he grew up bouncing around the East Coast and served at 29 Palms before finding his way to the outdoors through volunteer work and a friend's advice to try trail runners instead of boots. He has done an AT section hike, explored the Pacific Northwest Scenic Trail, and worked as a backpacking guide on the West Coast. He is 32, based in Massachusetts, and planning to retire from thru-hiking in favor of getting 12 to 16 dogs. What's Covered in Part 2 The Trail's Political Situation The Most Beautiful Sections Why This Was His Last Thru-Hike Andrew Skurka and Doing the Research There's No Suck to Be Embraced Why the Alaska Long Trail Hiking Hack — Have Fun Off the Beaten Path — Tooth and Claw Pay It Forward — Alaska Trails Links & Resources Alaska Trails (trail organization): https://www.alaska.org/trails Alaska Long Trail — Information: https://www.alaskalongtrail.org Wes Larson — Bear biologist making bear safety and wildlife content. Rafiki's primary recommendation for anyone heading into Alaska bear country. Tooth and Claw Podcast — Bear safety and wildlife content. Rafiki's top media recommendation for pre-trail preparation on the Alaska Long Trail. Andrew Skurka — The reference for Alaska backcountry trip planning. Rafiki studied his routes and approach extensively in preparation. Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Bradford "Rafiki" Bartels is a Marine Corps veteran, backcountry guide, and the first person to thru-hike the Alaska Long Trail — a roughly 500-mile route from Seward to Fairbanks, currently under development by Alaska Trails. Born in Soldotna, Alaska, he grew up bouncing around the East Coast and served at 29 Palms before finding his way to the outdoors through volunteer work and a friend's advice to try trail runners instead of boots. He has done an AT section hike, explored the Pacific Northwest Scenic Trail, and worked as a backpacking guide on the West Coast. He is 32, based in Massachusetts, and planning to retire from thru-hiking in favor of getting 12 to 16 dogs. What's Covered in Part 1 Trail Name — Rafiki Trailblazer's Toolkit — A Good Puffy The Hiking Poll — Score: 33 How He Found Thru-Hiking The Trail — Overview Bears vs. Rivers Gear — I Like to Tinker Links & Resources Alaska Trails (trail organization): https://www.alaska.org/trails Alaska Long Trail — Information: https://www.alaskalongtrail.org Wes Larson — Bear biologist making bear safety and wildlife content. Rafiki's primary recommendation for anyone heading into Alaska bear country. Tooth and Claw Podcast — Bear safety and wildlife content. Rafiki's top media recommendation for pre-trail preparation on the Alaska Long Trail. Andrew Skurka — The reference for Alaska backcountry trip planning. Rafiki studied his routes and approach extensively in preparation. Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Part 2 drops in 10 minutes. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Bradford "Rafiki" Bartels is a Marine Corps veteran, backcountry guide, and the first person to thru-hike the Alaska Long Trail — a roughly 500-mile route from Seward to Fairbanks, currently under development by Alaska Trails. Born in Soldotna, Alaska, he grew up bouncing around the East Coast and served at 29 Palms before finding his way to the outdoors through volunteer work and a friend's advice to try trail runners instead of boots. He has done an AT section hike, explored the Pacific Northwest Scenic Trail, and worked as a backpacking guide on the West Coast. He is 32, based in Massachusetts, and planning to retire from thru-hiking in favor of getting 12 to 16 dogs. Episode Highlights Trail Name — Mandrill, Actually It's Not the Bears. It's the Rivers. 30 Percent Road Walks and Why That's Fine Seth Holden and Homemade Bear Armor The Political Opposition — And Why He Called Them First There's No Suck to Be Embraced Why the Alaska Long Trail Links & Resources Alaska Trails (trail organization): https://www.alaska.org/trails Alaska Long Trail — Information: https://www.alaskalongtrail.org Wes Larson — Bear biologist making bear safety and wildlife content. Rafiki's primary recommendation for anyone heading into Alaska bear country. Tooth and Claw Podcast — Bear safety and wildlife content. Rafiki's top media recommendation for pre-trail preparation on the Alaska Long Trail. Andrew Skurka — The reference for Alaska backcountry trip planning. Rafiki studied his routes and approach extensively in preparation. Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. The full interview with Rafiki drops Wednesday in two parts. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In Dinosaur National Monument, Kevin Koski once scaled a thirty-foot sandstone cliff because his own map told him there was a way up. There wasn't — not a safe one. He survived it, and then he did the thing that separates a person who walks routes from a person who makes them: he took it off his map, so nobody else would follow him into it. Because a route doesn't end when the maker finishes walking it. That's when the real work starts — the years of correcting, erasing, second-guessing, and handing off. A trail is not a monument you carve once and leave standing. It's a living thing that keeps changing after its maker is gone. Rue McKenrick redraws the American Perimeter Trail every quarter and structured its nonprofit so the board can fire him — "we all own this," he says, "I just get to be the one that talks about it until I croak." Kevin "The Animal" Koski watched two strangers find a better line on his Four Corners Loop and changed his own map to match theirs. Donovan "Iceman" Rice released the Great Colorado Route to the public before he'd even proven it, calling route-making "just stitching together things that other people have done." And as this episode airs, Rice is more than 50 days into that route, deep in the high country, finding out whether the gift he gave holds up. This is the episode about letting go: the community that holds the pen, the fear of sending someone into real country on your word, and the truth every maker in this series has had to accept — that the line was never really theirs to keep. Featured routes: Great Colorado Route · Four Corners Loop · American Perimeter Trail · the "Fourth Crown Route" (Mexico–Canada) · Great Western Loop Featured makers: Kevin "The Animal" Koski · Donovan "Iceman" Rice · Rue McKenrick · Wesley "Megaman" Tils ·Andrew Skurka Next time — the series finale of The Route Makers: a maker we met in the very first episode returns to teach the last thing a route can teach, when everything changes at once. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guests Fab (from Berlin, Germany) and Fitch (from the UK) met in Australia a year ago on a group hike at Pages Pinnacle, Gold Coast — a Facebook meetup they both almost didn't attend. They are currently thru-hiking the HexaTrek, France's Grand Traverse: roughly 3,000 kilometers across the entire country, from Wissembourg to Hendaye at the Atlantic Coast. They are doing it with Billie — Fab's eight-year-old Australian kelpie cross cattle dog — on their first thru-hike as a couple. They are in Stage 4, about 1,500 kilometers in, and in the process of buying a 200-year-old farmhouse in Brittany. They post on Instagram as @FabandFitch. What's Covered in Part 2 How the Relationship Grew Fitch's Origin — Leap Before You Look Fab's Origin — A Park in Hamburg How Their Two Relationships With the Road Fit Together The Brittany Training Hike — GR 380 Would You Do It Again — Honest Answer What's Next — The Farmhouse Hiking Hacks — Two for One Off the Beaten Path — Dust on My Shoes Pay It Forward — The Sugi Project Links & Resources Fab and Fitch — Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fabandfitch HexaTrek — Official Website: https://www.hexatrek.com Dust on My Shoes — Peter Pinney (1952). Fitch's media recommendation — a minimalist traveler's journey from Yugoslavia to Zanzibar. The Sugi Project — Pocket Forests: https://www.thesugiproject.com Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guests Fab (from Berlin, Germany) and Fitch (from the UK) met in Australia a year ago on a group hike at Pages Pinnacle, Gold Coast — a Facebook meetup they both almost didn't attend. They are currently thru-hiking the HexaTrek, France's Grand Traverse: roughly 3,000 kilometers across the entire country, from Wissembourg to Hendaye at the Atlantic Coast. They are doing it with Billie — Fab's eight-year-old Australian kelpie cross cattle dog — on their first thru-hike as a couple. They are in Stage 4, about 1,500 kilometers in, and in the process of buying a 200-year-old farmhouse in Brittany. They post on Instagram as @FabandFitch. What's Covered in Part 1 Trail Name — No Trail Names (Yet) Trailblazer's Toolkit — Two for One The Hiking Poll — Fab: 53, Fitch: 47 How the HexaTrek Happened Day 62 — The Near-Quit The Hexadog — What They Didn't Expect Hiking With Billie — Joy and Cost Links & Resources Fab and Fitch — Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fabandfitch HexaTrek — Official Website: https://www.hexatrek.com Dust on My Shoes — Peter Pinney (1952). Fitch's media recommendation — a minimalist traveler's journey from Yugoslavia to Zanzibar. The Sugi Project — Pocket Forests: https://www.thesugiproject.com Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Part 2 drops in 10 minutes. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Appalachian Trail is more than a footpath - it’s a living piece of American history. Stretching over 2,000 miles from Georgia to Maine, the A.T. winds through some of Virginia’s most beautiful and rugged landscapes. But have you ever wondered how this legendary trail came to be, and who the dreamers, builders, and hikers were that shaped it? We’re hiking through history with someone who knows the Appalachian Trail like few others do. My friend, Mills Kelly, is a historian, archivist, podcast host, lifelong hiker, and author of the new book, A Hiker’s History of the Appalachian Trail. His book captures the A.T.’s history, not just as a collection of facts and dates, but as a human story about purpose, adventure, and our search for meaning in the mountains. Mills shares fascinating stories from the trail’s early days and how it has changed over the past century. And when you think about how far we’ve come - from hikers in wool suits carrying canvas packs filled with fresh produce, to today’s ultralight gear and freeze-dried meals - it’s amazing to see how the trail has evolved right alongside us. Mills reminds us that the A.T. wasn’t built for heroic end-to-end treks, but for ordinary people to breathe easier and feel a little wilder for a few hours or a few days. That simple idea still shapes lives, towns, and trail culture across Virginia and beyond. The story of the Appalachian Trail is as much about the people and their experiences as it is about the path beneath their feet. So join us as we hike back through time on the world’s most iconic long-distance trail. Let’s Go! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guests Fab (from Berlin, Germany) and Fitch (from the UK) met in Australia a year ago on a group hike at Pages Pinnacle, Gold Coast — a Facebook meetup they both almost didn't attend. They are currently thru-hiking the HexaTrek, France's Grand Traverse: roughly 3,000 kilometers across the entire country, from Wissembourg to Hendaye at the Atlantic Coast. They are doing it with Billie — Fab's eight-year-old Australian kelpie cross cattle dog — on their first thru-hike as a couple. They are in Stage 4, about 1,500 kilometers in, and in the process of buying a 200-year-old farmhouse in Brittany. They post on Instagram as @FabandFitch. Episode Highlights How They Met — Pages Pinnacle Day 62 — The Factory Pontoon The Hexadog — Designing a Thru-Hike Around a Dog Billie — Joy and Cost Fab's Origin Story — Walking After Loss The Couple on the HexaTrek What's Next — A 200-Year-Old Farmhouse in Brittany Links & Resources Fab and Fitch — Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fabandfitch HexaTrek — Official Website: https://www.hexatrek.com Dust on My Shoes — Peter Pinney (1952). Fitch's media recommendation — a minimalist traveler's journey from Yugoslavia to Zanzibar. The Sugi Project — Pocket Forests: https://www.thesugiproject.com Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. The full interview with Fab, Fitch, and Billie drops Wednesday in two parts. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The first two episodes of this series took us into deserts you cross with a map and a compass, and Alaska tundra a week from the nearest road. This episode is about a different kind of empty space on the map — the one most of us walk past every day without seeing the line at all. Because the impulse to look at a place and imagine a route through it doesn't need a trailhead. It doesn't even need a wilderness. Sometimes all it needs is a city. Liz "Snorkel" Thomas — a Triple Crowner and, per Outside magazine, a living legend —took the entire framework of a thru-hike downtown, inventing "urban thru-hikes" like a250-mile route across Seattle and a 100-mile "brew-through" connecting Denver's breweries. Alexandra "Sunshine" Kenin, founder of Urban Hiker SF and author of three Urban Trails guidebooks, has hiked more than a thousand public staircases in a single city— and inherited the project from Adah Bakalinsky, the woman who mapped San Francisco's stairs by hand before Google Maps existed. Along the way: why walking on pavement can be harder on your body than a mountain trail, why a route through a city might deliver more genuine adventure than a wilderness, why San Francisco is full of staircases in the first place, and how the urban route-maker's deepest cause turns out to be the same one a desert route-maker arrived at from the opposite end of the country — that a person on foot deserves to be safe. This is the series' warmest chapter: proof that the wilderness maker and the city maker are doing the same thing, and that the best routes are the ones the most people can reach. Featured routes: San Francisco Roundabout · Crosstown Trail · the Denver "brew-through"· Seattle urban thru-hike · the New England Trail Featured makers: Liz "Snorkel" Thomas ·Alexandra "Sunshine" Kenin (with Andrew Skurka & Rue McKenrick) Next time on The Route Makers — Episode 4: "The Eraser and the Gift," on what happensto a route after the map is drawn: the years of correcting, erasing, and handing it off towhoever comes next. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Chris "Rad" Carter is a Triple Crown thru-hiker (PCT, CDT + AT in a single calendar year), mountaineer, adventure filmmaker, and senior editor at Switchback Travel, where he runs the climbing, mountaineering, travel, and backpacking categories. Born in the United States and raised in Nairobi, Kenya by NGO parents, he came to America for college in 2014 and fell deeply in love with the country through his thru-hikes. In June 2025 he summited Denali — the highest peak in North America — as cameraman for Brandon's "Seek Your Summit" 50-highpoints record attempt. He is based in Chattanooga, Tennessee, recently married, and currently training for The Shield on El Capitan. His PCT documentary is called To Measure a Mile. What's Covered in Part 2 The Seek Your Summit Project — Brandon's Record Attempt Post-Trail Depression and the Why What He Got Wrong The Kenya Trail Project Best Switchback Trip — The Haute Route in Switzerland The Kyrgyzstan/Tajikistan Disaster — A Gear Review in Absentia The Roped Expedition Mindset vs. Solo Thru-Hiking Hiking Hack — Hypoxico Altitude Generator What's Next Off the Beaten Path — Two Reads Pay It Forward — PCTA Links & Resources Chris Carter — Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chris.cart.er Switchback Travel: https://www.switchbacktravel.com To Measure a Mile — YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@chriscarter Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage — Alfred Lansing. Rad's current read — an unbelievable expedition story. Kon-Tiki — Thor Heyerdahl. Read on Denali. A must for adventure lovers. Pacific Crest Trail Association (PCTA): https://www.pcta.org Continental Divide Trail Coalition (CDTC): https://www.continentaldividetrail.org Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Chris "Rad" Carter is a Triple Crown thru-hiker (PCT, CDT + AT in a single calendar year), mountaineer, adventure filmmaker, and senior editor at Switchback Travel, where he runs the climbing, mountaineering, travel, and backpacking categories. Born in the United States and raised in Nairobi, Kenya by NGO parents, he came to America for college in 2014 and fell deeply in love with the country through his thru-hikes. In June 2025 he summited Denali — the highest peak in North America — as cameraman for Brandon's "Seek Your Summit" 50-highpoints record attempt. He is based in Chattanooga, Tennessee, recently married, and currently training for The Shield on El Capitan. His PCT documentary is called To Measure a Mile. What's Covered in Part 1 Trail Name — The Ass Tat Trailblazer's Toolkit — Household Bleach The Hiking Poll — Score: 22 The Origin — Kenya, NGOs, and America Denali vs. the Trail — What's Different The Denali Poop System The Diving Board The Talkeetna Cemetery Links & Resources Chris Carter — Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chris.cart.er Switchback Travel: https://www.switchbacktravel.com To Measure a Mile — YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@chriscarter Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage — Alfred Lansing. Rad's current read — an unbelievable expedition story. Kon-Tiki — Thor Heyerdahl. Read on Denali. A must for adventure lovers. Pacific Crest Trail Association (PCTA): https://www.pcta.org Continental Divide Trail Coalition (CDTC): https://www.continentaldividetrail.org Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Part 2 drops in 10 minutes. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Chris "Rad" Carter is a Triple Crown thru-hiker (PCT, CDT + AT in a single calendar year), mountaineer, adventure filmmaker, and senior editor at Switchback Travel, where he runs the climbing, mountaineering, travel, and backpacking categories. Born in the United States and raised in Nairobi, Kenya by NGO parents, he came to America for college in 2014 and fell deeply in love with the country through his thru-hikes. In June 2025 he summited Denali — the highest peak in North America — as cameraman for Brandon's "Seek Your Summit" 50-highpoints record attempt. He is based in Chattanooga, Tennessee, recently married, and currently training for The Shield on El Capitan. His PCT documentary is called To Measure a Mile. Episode Highlights The Bleach Gang From Kenya to the Triple Crown Denali — The Mountain in Context The Poop System The Diving Board The Autobahn Post-Trail Depression and What the Trails Are For Links & Resources Chris Carter — Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chris.cart.er Switchback Travel: https://www.switchbacktravel.com To Measure a Mile — YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@chriscarter Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage — Alfred Lansing. Rad's current read — an unbelievable expedition story. Kon-Tiki — Thor Heyerdahl. Read on Denali. A must for adventure lovers. Pacific Crest Trail Association (PCTA): https://www.pcta.org Continental Divide Trail Coalition (CDTC): https://www.continentaldividetrail.org Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. The full interview with Rad drops Wednesday in two parts. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Route Makers, Episode 2: "The Proving Ground" — Rue McKenrick, Kevin Koski, Wesley Tils, and Andrew Skurka on what it costs to prove a route no one has walked. Last episode, we watched five people look at a map and see a line that wasn't there. This episode is about what happens when the paper runs out — when a route stops being a plan and becomes a body on unmapped ground. Because a route isn't real when you draw it. It's real when someone walks the whole thing, corner to corner, and comes back to say it goes. The people who invent long-distance routes call that process "proving," and it's where they find out what their line actually costs. Wesley "Megaman" Tils invented a Mexico-to-Canada route as a thirtieth-birthday present to himself and met a −40 blizzard on day one. Andrew Skurka — who circumnavigated Alaska largely off-trail — describes the psychology of true wilderness, where "there's always a cloud." Kevin "The Animal" Koski's proving hike of his own Four Corners Loop went almost exactly to plan, until it didn't. And Rue McKenrick, who scouted the American Perimeter Trail alone over three years, is unflinchingly honest about the physical price of that undertaking — and about why he'd do it all again for the people who come behind him. This is the hardest, most honest episode of the series so far: the improvising when the map fails, the decisions no spreadsheet prepares you for, and the truth that the line on the map is never free. What these makers pay for it — and why they consider it worth paying — is the whole story. Featured routes: American Perimeter Trail · Four Corners Loop · the "Fourth Crown Route" (Mexico–Canada) · Great Western Loop · Alaska-Yukon Expedition Featured makers: Rue McKenrick · Kevin "The Animal" Koski · Wesley "Megaman" Tils · Andrew Skurka · Renee "She-Ra" Patrick This episode includes candid discussion of serious injury, physical hardship, and loss. Next time on The Route Makers — Episode 3: "The Concrete Wilderness," where the route-making impulse leaves the backcountry and heads downtown. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Jada "Flo" Lippincott is a 27-year-old thru-hiker, splitboarder, canyoneer, packrafter, and full-time truck dweller based in Big Sky, Montana. Originally from Fairfield, Iowa, she discovered the outdoors through a college exchange semester in Fairbanks, Alaska and found long-distance hiking after a catastrophic snowboarding accident that shattered her leg. Three days out of her walking boot, she boarded a plane to Arizona and started the Arizona Trail. She has since logged over 9,000 miles across the CDT, Arizona Trail, Grand Enchantment Trail, Great Divide Trail (Canada), Hayduke Trail, Colorado Trail, and Sierra High Route (partial), all while living out of a 2009 Toyota Tundra with her 50-pound shelter dog, Indy (trail name: Roadblock). She has a tattoo on her leg that reads: Your time is limited. What's Covered in Part 2 Origin Story — Iowa, Motor Homes, and Negative 40 Finding Her People on the Arizona Trail CDT — The Breakup, Deep End, and Deep End Becoming a Triple Crowner The 'Yes Person' Philosophy Balancing Every Sport Roadblock's Grizzly Encounter The Great Divide Trail and the 1,000-Mile Hitchhike The Your Time Is Limited Tattoo The 2026 Season — and What Happened on the Sierra High Route Five Hiking Hacks Off the Beaten Path — Five Recommendations Pay It Forward — Three Causes The Crew Shoutout Links & Resources Flo on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whereisjadaa Desert Solitaire — Edward Abbey. Flo's top desert book recommendation. The Adventure Son — Roman Dial. Memoir of the godfather of packrafting in Alaska. Tracks — Robyn Davidson. Real-life story of trekking across Australia in 1977. The Dark Wizard — HBO Max documentary about Dean Potter. Valley Uprising — Documentary about rock climbers in Yosemite. Edge of the Unknown — Jimmy Chin documentary series. Real Survival Stories — Podcast. Stories of people nearly dying in the outdoors. Greg MacCannan — YouTube. Currently cycling from Alaska to Argentina, four years in. The Wilderness Society: https://www.wilderness.org Grand Staircase-Escalante Partners: https://www.gsenm.org Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Jada "Flo" Lippincott is a 27-year-old thru-hiker, splitboarder, canyoneer, packrafter, and full-time truck dweller based in Big Sky, Montana. Originally from Fairfield, Iowa, she discovered the outdoors through a college exchange semester in Fairbanks, Alaska and found long-distance hiking after a catastrophic snowboarding accident that shattered her leg. Three days out of her walking boot, she boarded a plane to Arizona and started the Arizona Trail. She has since logged over 9,000 miles across the CDT, Arizona Trail, Grand Enchantment Trail, Great Divide Trail (Canada), Hayduke Trail, Colorado Trail, and Sierra High Route (partial), all while living out of a 2009 Toyota Tundra with her 50-pound shelter dog, Indy (trail name: Roadblock). She has a tattoo on her leg that reads: Your time is limited. What's Covered in Part 1 Trail Name — There Goes Flo Trailblazer's Toolkit — Trekking Poles + Foam Pad Roadblock — The Gear Dog The Hiking Poll — Score: 14 The Near-Death Moment — Colorado Hut Trip Running Out of Time at 27 The Hayduke Trail . Truck Life Links & Resources Flo on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whereisjadaa Desert Solitaire — Edward Abbey. Flo's top desert book recommendation. The Adventure Son — Roman Dial. Memoir of the godfather of packrafting in Alaska. Tracks — Robyn Davidson. Real-life story of trekking across Australia in 1977. The Dark Wizard — HBO Max documentary about Dean Potter. Valley Uprising — Documentary about rock climbers in Yosemite. Edge of the Unknown — Jimmy Chin documentary series. Real Survival Stories — Podcast. Stories of people nearly dying in the outdoors. Greg MacCannan — YouTube. Currently cycling from Alaska to Argentina, four years in. The Wilderness Society: https://www.wilderness.org Grand Staircase-Escalante Partners: https://www.gsenm.org Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Part 2 drops in 10 minutes. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Jada "Flo" Lippincott is a 27-year-old thru-hiker, splitboarder, canyoneer, packrafter, and full-time truck dweller based in Big Sky, Montana. Originally from Fairfield, Iowa, she discovered the outdoors through a college exchange semester in Fairbanks, Alaska and found long-distance hiking after a catastrophic snowboarding accident that shattered her leg. Three days out of her walking boot, she boarded a plane to Arizona and started the Arizona Trail. She has since logged over 9,000 miles across the CDT, Arizona Trail, Grand Enchantment Trail, Great Divide Trail (Canada), Hayduke Trail, Colorado Trail, and Sierra High Route (partial), all while living out of a 2009 Toyota Tundra with her 50-pound shelter dog, Indy (trail name: Roadblock). She has a tattoo on her leg that reads: Your time is limited. Episode Highlights The Trail Name — There Goes Flo The Origin — Iowa to Alaska to Trail The Broken Leg Origin Story The Frostbite Hut Trip Roadblock's Grizzly Encounter Your Time Is Limited Trail Wisdom — You Either Keep Moving or You Die Links & Resources Flo on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whereisjadaa Desert Solitaire — Edward Abbey. Flo's top desert book recommendation. The Adventure Son — Roman Dial. Memoir of the godfather of packrafting in Alaska. Tracks — Robyn Davidson. Real-life story of trekking across Australia in 1977. The Dark Wizard — HBO Max documentary about Dean Potter. Valley Uprising — Documentary about rock climbers in Yosemite. Edge of the Unknown — Jimmy Chin documentary series. Real Survival Stories — Podcast. Stories of people nearly dying in the outdoors. Greg MacCannan — YouTube. Currently cycling from Alaska to Argentina, four years in. The Wilderness Society: https://www.wilderness.org Grand Staircase-Escalante Partners: https://www.gsenm.org Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. The full interview with Flo drops Wednesday in two parts. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Route Makers, Episode 1: "The Map Moment" — Andrew Skurka, Rue McKenrick, Kevin Koski, and Donovan Rice on the birth of a long-distance route. Every trail feels permanent. The Appalachian Trail, the Pacific Crest, the Continental Divide — they seem as fixed as the mountains they cross. But every one of them began as a line in a single person's imagination. Somebody drew it. Somebody walked it first. And somebody gave up years of their life to make it real for everyone who came after. In the premiere of our new five-part documentary series, we meet the people still doing that today — and we start where every route starts: the map moment. The instant a maker looks at empty space and sees a line that isn't there. For Kevin "The Animal" Koski, a Navy nuclear engineer, it happened in his cubicle, staring at a green circle of high country in the western United States. For Rue McKenrick, it struck at the bottom of a ski hill in a snowstorm — a vision of a trail wrapping the entire perimeter of the country. For Andrew Skurka — Nat Geo Adventurer of the Year and a founding figure of modern route-making — it began at an Alaska roadside, and with a single question that closed a seven-thousand-mile loop: "why don't you just close the bottom?" Along the way we hear from Liz "Snorkel" Thomas on why trails are made over decades, not overnight; from Renee "She-Ra" Patrick, longtime Oregon Desert Trail coordinator, on the difference between a trail and a route — and why land managers struggle to manage "something that doesn't exist"; and from Donovan "Iceman" Rice, days before setting out to prove his own Great Colorado Route, on nerves, love letters, and why almost everything left to create is really just "stitching together things that other people have done." This episode is about the vision. What these makers see, why they see it, and the moment they decide it's their job to fill the empty space. What it costs them comes next. As this episode releases, Donovan Rice is more than fifty days into the Great Colorado Route and, by all reports, having the time of his life. We'll catch up with him before the series ends. Featured routes: Great Western Loop · American Perimeter Trail · Four Corners Loop · Great Colorado Route · Oregon Desert Trail · Sierra High Route Featured makers: Andrew Skurka · Rue McKenrick · Kevin "The Animal" Koski · Donovan "Iceman" Rice · Liz "Snorkel" Thomas · Renee "She-Ra" Patrick Next time on The Route Makers — Episode 2: "The Proving Ground." A route isn't real until someone walks the whole thing and comes back. What the line costs, in bodies, in years, and in the people waiting at home. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Carolyn Highland is a writer, outdoor educator, and endurance athlete based in Anchorage, Alaska. Her second essay collection, The Full Range: Essays from a Life Outside, is published by Rocky Mountain Books. Her first collection, Out Here, was published during COVID. She writes primarily about skiing and the outdoors for magazines including Backcountry Magazine, and has been keeping a journal since age seven. She taught fourth and seventh grade at an outdoor school in Truckee, California before moving to Anchorage, where she and her husband recently honeymooned by fastpacking the Alta Via 1 in the Dolomites. What's Covered in Part 2 Running 50Ks and 40-Mile Loops Instead of Races The Opening Essay — 48 Hours Ultras and Heartbreak — The Through-Line The Rae Lakes Run — Standing Up Alone Sam Wasn't My Person, But He Was My People Backcountry Skiing — The Winter Version The Full Range — What It Is and What She Wants Readers to Take Away The Mental Game Hiking Hack — Two Pieces Off the Beaten Path — Two Recommendations Honeymoon Note Pay It Forward — Protect Our Winters Links & Resources Carolyn Highland — Website: https://www.carolynhighland.com Instagram: Verify handle before publishing (transcript shows C_Hyland — confirm correct spelling) Substack: Verify handle before publishing (transcript shows Carolyn Hyland — confirm correct spelling) The Full Range — Rocky Mountain Books: https://www.rmbooks.com Fierce Country — Heather Hansman: https://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com Jeff Pelletier — Ultra-runner and fastpacker with a YouTube channel featuring trail running and fastpacking content. Inspired Carolyn and her husband's Dolomites honeymoon run. Protect Our Winters: https://www.protectourwinters.org Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:hikertashradio@gmail.com Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.