Get Out of Wrap - Contact Centre Chat

Susan Terry, SVP and Head of Product at Alvaria, joins Get Out of Wrap for a wide-ranging conversation about the death of "outbound" and the rise of proactive customer outreach. Drawing on decades spent leading product transformation across the graphic arts, advertising, and contact center industries, Susan explains why she believes the language we use — outbound vs. outreach — reveals a deeper shift in how businesses should think about customer experience. She unpacks how Alvaria was built from the merger of legacy platforms Noble and Aspect, why enterprise-scale compliance remains its biggest differentiator (the company powers outreach for 50–60% of the world's largest banks), and how its new "infrastructure as a service" model — already live with partners Zoom and Parloa — lets any business plug in compliant, orchestrated outreach without needing a traditional contact center at all. The conversation also dives into the decentralization of the contact center, why premise-based systems aren't going anywhere despite the cloud narrative, and how agentic AI is reshaping outbound faster than almost any other part of CX — replacing IVRs, learning from human-in-the-loop supervisors, and opening up use cases most companies haven't even considered yet. If you've ever wondered why your business is still reacting to customers instead of reaching them first, this episode will change how you think about outreach for good. 0:00 – Welcome & Introducing Susan Terry 1:38 – Susan's Career Journey Across Industries 5:49 – Joining Alvaria: Uniting Noble and Aspect 8:42 – Who Is Transformation Really For? 11:03 – From Outbound to Proactive Outreach 13:40 – Outreach as Infrastructure: Partnering with Zoom and Parloa 26:42 – Compliance as a Competitive Advantage in Financial Services 29:29 – Helping Customers Find Their Proactive Use Cases 36:20 – Legacy Tech Stacks, Cloud, and the Case for Premise 42:26 – Agentic AI and the Future of Outreach •44:45 – Closing Thoughts

Here's a Spotify description for this episode: #268 - What if leadership didn't need a leader? - Danny Wareham What if the best leaders are the ones who know how to get out of the way? In this episode, Martin sits down with psychologist, coach, and author Danny Wareham to unpack his book Constellation and the radical idea behind it: that culture — not a single person — can carry the weight of leadership. Danny shares the research behind the book, born out of studying agile project teams and scrum masters, and reveals surprising findings about how trust, experience, and organizational size shape whether a team can truly self-organize. The conversation takes a fascinating detour into the military, exploring why service personnel can trust a total stranger within a single day — and why civilian workplaces take years to build the same thing. They also dig into why intentional culture matters more than ever, from climate change to the erosion of institutional checks and balances, and why charismatic, single-leader models often struggle to solve modern, cross-border problems. Plus: the surreal experience of seeing your own book on a shelf next to Simon Sinek, why traditional publishing wasn't the right fit for Danny, and how Constellation has landed him as a finalist for Business Book of the Year. A must-listen for anyone rethinking what leadership really looks like in 2026 and beyond..

Martin welcomes back "the Bearded Wonder Man" himself, James Revell, for a wide-ranging conversation on leadership, team culture, and the future of customer experience. Drawing on years of judging national and European contact centre awards, James shares what separates truly great teams from the merely good — authenticity, storytelling, and leaders who empower rather than dominate. The conversation turns to the evolving leadership journey: from early missteps navigating strategy and communication, to mastering the "dark arts" of stakeholder politics and budgets across different cultures. James and Martin also dig into one of the industry's biggest questions right now — how AI and automation are reshaping the contact centre, the risk of losing entry-level talent pipelines, and why customer experience must remain the driver behind every technology decision, not cost alone. Packed with hard-won insight from a leader who's built and led award-winning teams, this episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating team building, leadership, and the future of CX in an AI-driven world.

Martin takes a closer look at the near future of the contact centre — not the vague "AI will replace everyone" headlines, but a practical, role-by-role breakdown of how the industry might really change over the next decade. After attending the National Contact Centre Awards in London, Martin reflects on how far the industry has come — and where it's heading. He walks through what a future 500-seat operation could look like, and what that means for every team: agents, team leaders, QA, training, WFM, and HR. In this episode: Why transactional contacts will largely disappear — and what that leaves for human agents How the team leader role becomes more important, not less The evolution of QA from auditors to insight specialists Why training will shift towards emotional intelligence, resilience, and critical thinking The real risk of removing humans too aggressively — and why customers will punish it Why demand for exceptional team leaders will be higher than ever by 2035 Whether you're deep into AI adoption or still running on an Excel Frankenstack, this one's for you. Share your thoughts — how do you see the contact centre changing?

Martin Teasdale is joined again by Danny Wardell of Alvaria for Part 2 of their conversation. Fresh from a great response to Episode 1, they dive deeper into the realities of contact centre life, from the agent experience to the evolution (or lack of it) of customer experience over the last 20 years. Danny shares candid takes on CCaaS, proactive outbound, AI, and why buying brand over capability has held the industry back. A genuinely honest conversation from two people who've lived it from the agent's seat upwards. Chapters: 0:20 – Being an Agent 3:59 – Has the Job Got Harder? 8:22 – Has Customer Experience Improved? 16:32 – Proactive Outbound 19:22 – The BA Story 28:20 – Service vs. Cost 29:43 – AI & The Future of Contact Centers 41:23 – Wrapping Up ContactCentre #CustomerExperience #CX #Podcast #Outbound #AI #CCaaS #Alvaria #GetOutOfWrap

Feeling stuck in a cycle of firefighting, endless meetings, and inbox management — and wondering why nothing ever seems to truly improve? This episode might be exactly what you need. Martin is joined by Phil Anderson and Chris Rainsforth from The Forum — an organisation dedicated to raising standards in customer operations — for a practical and thought-provoking session on how to break free from reactive working and build smarter decision systems. Together they explore: The Failure Loop — why great intentions so often lead to the same problems repeating Resetting before redefining — why you need to stop old habits before you can build new ones The Eisenhower Matrix — a simple but powerful tool for sorting urgent from important The 1-3-5 Rule — how to structure your day around what actually matters Decision architecture — moving from reacting to orchestrating The Strategy Pyramid — aligning daily priorities to organisational objectives Whether you're a team leader, analyst, or operations professional, this session is packed with practical frameworks you can start using immediately — no matter what's going on around you. Plus, stick around to the end to hear about The Forum's Virtual Learning Academy, now available exclusively to the Team Leader community.

Get Out of Wrap | Episode #263 – Danny Wardell, VP EMEA GTM at Alvaria CX From filing in a damp cellar at a solicitor's office to VP at one of the contact center industry's most recognised brands, Danny Wardell's journey is anything but ordinary. In this episode, Martin sits down with Danny to explore the grit, setbacks, and hard-won lessons behind a career built from a working-class background in West Yorkshire. They cover early jobs that shaped his relentless work ethic, the rejection that lit a fire under him, what it really costs to succeed in sales, and why returning to carry a bag after a decade of leadership was the best move he ever made. They also get into the AI hype problem facing the contact center industry, why proactive outbound is the most underused superpower in CX, and the human moments where no technology should ever replace a person. Honest, grounded, and genuinely entertaining and this is part one of two.

In this episode I am joined once again by the brilliant Lee Houghton for a conversation that gets to the heart of what makes a team a real team, and what gets in the way. They explore why "team" is consistently the number one thing people say brings them happiness at work, the difference between a group that works and one that truly performs, and why artificial harmony might be the biggest silent killer of team culture. From belonging and connection to healthy conflict, watermelon reporting, and the danger of mistaking agreement for high performance, this episode is packed with honest reflections, practical insights, and more than a few great stories. Lee also introduces his BOSS framework — Behaviours Observed Set Standards — and why, as leaders, everything we do (and don't do) is setting the standard for those around us. If you lead a team, are part of one, or simply care about creating environments where people can do their best work, this one's for you.

In this episode I sat down with Jamie Corbett, Head of Operations at Advantis Credit, for a conversation that's as honest as it is inspiring. Jamie's story starts on the building sites, a plumber by trade who accidentally stumbled into a contact centre when he needed holiday money and ends (for now) at the top of operations. But it's the messy, human middle that makes this episode unmissable. Jamie opens up about bombing on the phones, the hippie colleague who changed his entire outlook with a Dale Carnegie quote, and the Excel V-lookup that quietly launched his career. He talks about what it really means to build psychological safety for a team, why he created a secret project called "Project Artemis” to solve a wrap time problem, and the brutal setback that turned out to be the making of him. If you've ever questioned whether you're ready for the next step, taken a leap that didn't land, or wondered what separates good leaders from great ones, this one's for you. Topics covered: contact centre culture, emotional intelligence, early leadership lessons, dealing with failure, self-development, and why the best leadership lesson is learning it's never about you. From Plumber to Contact Centre Learning the Hard Way on the Phones The Vinny Effect: Lessons That Last Stepping Into Leadership Building the Bad Apple Team Creating Psychological Safety The Setback That Changed Everything • Jamie 2.0: From Me to We

Martin sits down with Lee Houghton, the UK's National Coach of the Year and founder of Get Knowledge, for a wide-ranging, honest conversation about artificial intelligence and what it's doing to us as humans. Fresh from the Forum Conference, both self-confessed AI enthusiasts wrestle with a genuine tension: they love how AI has transformed their solo businesses, but they're worried about what we might be quietly giving away in the process. Are we outsourcing our creativity, our curiosity, and our human connection along with our admin? From SatNav and checkbooks to ChatGPT and Claude, Martin and Lee explore how technology has always reshaped behaviour and ask whether this time it's different. Lee shares his fear that we're slowly "practicing being human" less and less, while Martin wonders whether AI could actually create space for the things that make us irreplaceable: lived experience, genuine connection, and the kind of nuance no prompt can fully capture. They also touch on inclusion and exclusion in the AI age, what organisational structures might look like in the future, and inevitably, the looming spectre of Tottenham's relegation. Warm, funny, and thought-provoking……this one's got real heart. Topics covered: The "AI is as bad as it's ever going to be" mindset shift Outsourcing thinking vs. outsourcing the human Head, hands & heart — what AI can and can't replace Inclusion gaps in an AI-accelerated world Why your actual intention behind using AI matters

What if every contact centre agent and team leader had access to an on-demand AI coach — right in the moment they needed it most? In this episode of Get Out of Wrap , Martin is joined by Kathryn Simons-Porter , founder of Flourish Business Consulting, and Maria McCann of NES Wave, for a genuinely groundbreaking live experiment. They introduce R.E.N (Reset. Engage. Navigate.) — an AI coaching tool built specifically for contact centre teams. Grounded in emotional intelligence, transactional analysis, and the GROW coaching model, R.E.N is designed to give frontline agents and team leaders real-time support, guidance, and resilience — without waiting for a manager to be free. The stats are hard to ignore: absence rates in contact centres are running at three times the business average, 83% of agents say their mental health is being affected, and difficult conversations are being avoided every single day. R.E.N was built to change that. Watch live as Maria coaches R.E.N through a real workplace scenario — a manager overriding an agent's decision — and see how it navigates the conversation with calm, clarity, and emotional intelligence. This is contact centre wellbeing, reimagined. 🎙️ Guests: Kathryn Simons-Porter (Flourish Business Consulting) & Maria McCann (NEOS Wave) 📬 Get involved: Connect with Kathryn on LinkedIn or email kathryn.simons-porter@flourishbusinessconsulting.co.uk

In this episode, Martin is joined by Barry Cooper — Head of Conversions at Smart Currency Exchange, long-time member of the contact centre community, and all-round legend of the Team Leader Community. What started as a five-star review left on a podcast five years ago has turned into a genuine friendship, and now something even bigger. Barry joins to announce the launch of his brand-new podcast: ASA – Average Speed of Answer , a Get Out of Wrap production. Unlike most contact centre content, ASA is dedicated entirely to the people behind the headsets — customer service advisors, sales agents, and anyone on the frontline talking to customers every day. Barry wants to hear their stories, their first-day nerves, their career journeys, and what the job really feels like from the inside. Martin and Barry also reflect on the power of community, the confidence it takes to put yourself out there, and why the contact centre industry deserves more people who champion it from the ground up. ASA – Average Speed of Answer launches on 22nd April 2026, every Wednesday. Chapter Listing: 00:00 – Welcome & introducing Barry "Popup Pirate" Cooper 03:30 – The origin of the Popup Pirate nickname 07:00 – How community builds confidence: speaking at events and showing up 13:00 – How a single podcast review started a five-year friendship 19:00 – Why the contact centre industry needs more voices 23:30 – Announcing ASA – Average Speed of Answer : what it is and who it's for 28:00 – The first episodes: first-day stories, KPIs, and life behind the headsets 32:00 – Launch date, how to get involved, and how to leave a review

What does it really take to build a workplace where people thrive? Lisa Dolan, Regional VP of Employee Experience at Teleperformance, has spent over a decade proving that happy employees aren't just a nice-to-have — they're your biggest competitive advantage. In this episode, Martin is joined by Lisa to explore her fascinating career journey — from frontline agent to leading employee experience across a 25,000-person region spanning the UK, Ireland, South Africa, Kenya, Nigeria, and Ghana. They cover: Why Lisa never expected to find her calling in employee experience — and how a "corner of the desk" role changed everything The power of truly listening to employees (and why closing the feedback loop is critical) How TP is investing in emotional intelligence with EI coaching, brain profiling, and "leading with heart" Communicating across five generations — from a 17-year-old to an 84-year-old — in the same workforce The creation of TP Women , tackling the leadership gender gap, and the upcoming Empower Her development program Why AI and automation are actually making human connection more important — not less How Lisa saved 40 hours a week using Microsoft Copilot (and what she does with that time instead) Whether you're a team leader, an HR professional, or someone who cares about building better workplaces, Lisa's energy, practical wisdom, and genuine passion for people will leave you inspired. Connect with Lisa on LinkedIn to continue the conversation.

Is Voice Dying? The Data Says Not. ft. Steve Morrell of Contact Babel In this episode, Martin is joined by Steve Morrell, founder of Contact Babel and author of the UK Contact Centre Decision Makers' Guide — now in its 23rd year. Steve brings a historian's eye to the industry, grounding the conversation in real data rather than hype. They dig into some of the most striking trends from this year's report, including why average speed to answer has ballooned from around 16 seconds in 2004 to over two minutes today — and why it shows no signs of dropping. Steve explains how longer, more complex calls are placing a greater cognitive and emotional burden on agents, and why the industry may be sleepwalking into a burnout crisis. The headline finding? Voice is very much alive. Despite years of predictions that digital channels would take over, live telephony still accounts for around 63% of all inbound interactions — a figure that has barely shifted. Steve shares data on why customers continue to reach for the phone, especially for urgent, complex, or emotionally charged issues, and what it means for businesses rolling out AI-powered self-service. The episode closes with a practical take on AI adoption: where to start, what to avoid, and why the biggest risk isn't moving too slowly — it's deploying customer-facing AI before it's ready. The UK Contact Centre Decision Makers' Guide is available free at contactbabel.com .

Boost are in and Team Leaders are centre stage. In this GOOW TV special, Martin announces Boost as the official in-person training partner of The Team Leader Community. But the real focus? The future of the Team Leader. With AI reshaping contact centres, advisors handling more complex conversations, and vulnerability becoming a core capability, the pressure on Team Leaders has never been greater. Nicola and Emily from Boost discuss: Why Team Leaders must become strategic coordinators Coaching as a core leadership skill Managing vulnerability, both in customers and colleagues The risk of burnout in a complexity-driven world Why in-person learning still matters This isn’t theory. It’s grounded, practical and built on real contact centre experience. If you’re serious about frontline performance in 2026 and beyond then this is one to listen to.

Lee Houghton didn’t think he would win. He didn’t hype it up. He didn’t tell many people. He protected himself from disappointment. And then he was crowned National Coach of the Year . In this episode, Lee shares: The self-doubt behind the nomination The psychology of protecting ourselves from failure What the award really meant to him Why he believes “better is always different” And how leaders can move from instruction to true coaching We explore: The power of silence Why “why” questions can be dangerous How to create genuine human connection Why leaders should speak last And how to build high-performing teams through connection and curiosity It’s thoughtful. It’s emotional. It’s practical. And we discover he used to DJ in a monkey costume.....listen for the name alone ! Leadership… but human.

Join me and the rest of the Get Out of Wrap TV gang as we talk about the big questions in the contact centre and CX world. On this episode we talked about what agents are saying their work lives are like in our industry. This is born out of my work with Calabrio on producing the Voice of the Agent research at the end of 2025.

AI is moving fast. Faster than most organisations and people can emotionally keep up with. In this special episode of Get Out of Wrap TV , I’m joined by Kathryn Simmons Porter , founder of Flourish , to explore what she calls “The Trust Paradox” – the growing tension between rapid AI adoption and the human emotions it triggers inside contact centres. We talk openly about: Why AI isn’t replacing people – but changing them The emotional responses agents experience when AI is introduced known as AI grief Why trust, transparency and purpose matter more than ever How emotional intelligence (EQ) is becoming a core business capability, not a “soft skill” The real cost of absenteeism, disengagement and poorly handled AI rollouts Why leaders must focus on people readiness , not just tech readiness Kathryn brings nearly 30 years of contact centre experience and a deep understanding of emotional intelligence, blending practical insight with real-world examples including how AI has personally impacted her own family. If you’re responsible for CX, EX, contact centre strategy or AI transformation, this conversation will challenge how you think about success in the age of automation. 🎧 Listen now and join the conversation.

In this episode of Get Out of Wrap , I’m joined by the brilliant Shameem Smillie – CX leader, writer, speaker, one of the founding members of Women in CX, and Senior GTM Specialist for EMEA at Amazon. Shameem’s journey is anything but conventional. From leaving school with no qualifications, to serving 13 years in the British Army, to becoming one of the most respected voices in customer experience and contact centres, this is a conversation about resilience, representation, courage, and doing the work. We talk openly about: What the military taught her about leadership, teamwork, and accountability Why contact centres are the beating heart of organisations The reality of representation, allyship, and advocating for others Why AI shouldn’t scare us and how it can genuinely help agents and leaders The importance of culture, candour, and speaking truth in organisations This episode is honest, funny, powerful, and deeply human. If you care about leadership, CX, people, and progress then this one’s for you.

This is a milestone episode of Get Out of Wrap – and a meaningful one. For episode 250 , I’m joined by Niki Ignatiou and Julia Rosell Jackson from ActionAid , an international charity working alongside women, girls and communities to tackle injustice at its roots. In this conversation we explore: How ActionAid works differently by putting communities in the lead Why adolescent girls are often invisible – and how they’re changing that Real examples of girls influencing policy, education and social norms The role of women’s movements in humanitarian crises and conflict Why lasting change doesn’t come from systems imposed on people This episode is about justice, dignity, resilience – and listening to the people closest to the problem. If you care about leadership, humanity and impact, this one’s worth your time. You can support Action Aid at https://www.actionaid.org.uk/get-involved You can also donate for my London Marathon run raising money for Action Aid at https://www.justgiving.com/page/runwithmart?utm_medium=FR&utm_source=CL